I'm perplexed why people began joining green chip. The last I heard tehre were over a thousand members. Certainly the reason can't be security given this large number of people with it inevitable that numerous casino personall would have access. I mean, why don't people just post on the free pages or other blackjack sites? It would save $50,000 a year. The same information could be shared on other sites. Can someone clarify?
worth it. The posts are certainly of a higher caliber & quality and simply put, it is just better stuff. The good experienced posters also tend to reveal a little bit more here. I'm on a fast track learning mode & this is where I want to be.
Hey we're only talkin about $49 bucks /year. I've lost this much re-splitting 8's when it did'nt work out!!! Think about it!!!
Frequently someone asks why join Greenchip. This is followed by some of us posting lists of reasons. With others of us agreeing, and/or adding other reasons. The reasons are many, and you cannot get a better recommendation than a string of "customers" voluntarily and wholeheartedly endorsing the service.
But, you ask something more. Why can't this be available for free? Well, my friend, the exchange of information, ideas, and the personal communications could probably be arranged for free. A safe haven is going to cost, though. The 50K or so a year we all cough up together is somewhat small. There are the costs of having a site, and the administration of it. There is no way that 50k is going to cover that. So, there are ads on the free pages, and there are products on sale on the site. It is a business. It seems to be pretty well run.
As a Green Chipper, for my $49/yr, I am privy to all kinds of good information, and help from other members, and some of the great authorities on the game. This is all neatly packaged, and maintained. I even have a voice on the structure of the site.
It's my best $49 spent a year. I actually smile when I see the charge on my credit card. But, if you want to set all this up for free, I'm listening.
:-)
-T-
I also just joined GC. The archives alone are worth much more than $49.
,,,will you meet more so called "experts" than at a $5 blackjack table. :-) Green Chip is not just about security. As many have said before, there is a better quality to the posts on Green Chip. It's like a reputable magazine versus a tabloid. If you're serious about the game, then you will be pleased with Green Chip.
We really need a FAQ on this. I just posted this a couple of weeks ago, but since someone is asking again, here is my answer again:
Ten best reasons to join Green Chip (with apologies to David Letterman):
10. A near total absence of trolls, wackos, and psychopaths whose sole intent is to disrupt the site.
9. The archives - these alone are worth a year's membership. There is information here than cannot be found anywhere else.
8. Post of the Month - The best post of each month (chosen by Stanford with input from members) receives $100, plus the post is placed in the archives. That's two year's membership, plus your own tiny claim to fame.
7. A sense of comraderie not found on the free pages.
6. Green Chip members are usually polite toward each other, even in disagreement. (This is not applicable to the non-gambling page.)
5. Green Chip parties - A chance to meet other green chippers in person and socialize. While membership in Green Chip does not guarantee that you will be permitted to attend the parties, it is the first step.
4. More specialized discussion - note that there are pages devoted exclusively to theory, card counting, and cover and comps, among other areas.
3. You cannot lose - Green chip has a 10 free trial period for new members.
2. We aren't talking a fortune here - less than $4.09 per month. If that represents a significant cash outlay for you, you probably shouldn't be anywhere near a casino. For that matter, how did you manage to afford a computer?
1. The biggest reason to join Green Chip: Parker's entertaining and enlightening trip reports are posted only on Green Chip pages. (Okay, so I'm a little biased on this one. The other 9 are still excellent reasons.)
I appreciate the responses but they are answers why individuals should join green chip and not for counters as a whole. For example, I may join green chip for one quarter to see the archives and that is it. But after the archives, why should green chippers collectively stay on? There are plenty of blackjack boards that are free outside of bj21. Many of them are free of spam. Why don't people just go there and discuss card counting instead of green chip?
It's an individual decision of course. And as you suggest there are other venues that we could frequent, and I know that you can read posts from many here and on green on other sites. I have been participating on the free pages here for quite a while. I have come to value the insights of several of the posters on this site, and I have come to trust the accuracy of the voices here.
As far as green pages in particular, I can only echo what others have said. The posts on green are not frivolous, they are more candid than on the free pages, they really do offer information that causes me to look at my game more closely than I can do on my own, and the variety and organization of the page I appreciate. My game has improved, I think. I am more confident, more aggressive, I'm winning more, and my bankroll has grown. I guess I was looking for the next level, so to speak.
Finally, because of the casino's generosity on my last sojourn to lv, I consider that they contributed the fifty bucks for the ticket rather than it coming from my bankroll. Besides, now I can finally read those 'Posts of the Month.'
litcrit:
Hi, I'm going to take your post piece by piece to help clarify my main issue.
"As far as green pages in particular, I can only echo what others have said. The posts on green are not frivolous, they are more candid than on the free pages, they really do offer information that causes me to look at my game more closely than I can do on my own, and the variety and organization of the page I appreciate. My game has improved, I think. I am more confident, more aggressive, I'm winning more, and my bankroll has grown. I guess I was looking for the next level, so to speak."
Yes, I understand but the very same discussions on green chip could take place somewhere else and save everyone a lot of money. I mean, to exaggerate to understand my position, why don't green chippers all just cancel their memberships and start discussing blackjack on other web pages?
"Besides, now I can finally read those 'Posts of the Month."
Yes, I believe the archives and those posts of the month will pay for themselves if someone signs up for a quarter. But after those, I see no reason why good discussion can't be had somewhere else. Perhaps a a free archives couuld take place too. The Card Counters Cafe is good, clean of spam and very constructive (not to mention free). I'm sure that it too could have an archives section. Why don't people just move to other sites such as the Card Counters Cafe?
Why don't we move to a free site?
1. We're already here.
2. None of us find that spending just over $4.00 per month to belong to Green Chip creates any economic hardship.
3. Stanford & Co. are good hosts. You will note that there is a Green Chip admin page. Here we can make suggestions to improve both the green and free pages, and get a quick response from Stanford or David Matthews. BJ21.com is a classy, efficient operation. You simply do not find this quality at a free site.
4. I have met many Green Chip members in person and consider several of them to be good friends. I have attended several Green Chip parties and I look forward to attending more. There is a comraderie here that is not found elsewhere.
5. I cannot speak for anyone else on this one, but when I first discovered this site I knew very little about advantage play. I have learned a great deal about blackjack, advantage play, Las Vegas and other gambling meccas, directly or indirectly through this site. Along the way, I have also learned many things that have little to do with blackjack but a lot to do with life.
Call me old-fashioned if you wish, but I feel a certain loyalty toward bj21.com. I occasionally participate in the Card Counters Cafe, rge21.com, and a few others, but I much prefer green chip. I certainly would not leave Green Chip simply to save a lousy $4/month!
All I can add is to suggest that you try it and decide for yourself.
a smaller number of more serious players than a large number of less serious ones. How serious can one be who questions a $12.50 quarterly fee?
Green Chip is not a restricted website - anyone can join as soon as he pays up. (You can be subsequently barred, but that is only for reasons of gross misbehavior, e.g. obsessive trolling. This, however, still doesn't make GC a restricted website.)
If you're after "good information", then you should pay more than what GC charges. It's not that "good info" is non existent in GC but people understandably are much more reluctant to post something on such a wide open site.
So, "good info" about advanced strategy and some deep math insights is available in the restricted area of the BJ Mathematics website. It's free to join but you must come referred. More stringent rules of admission apply in the restricted area of Arnold Snyder's website, Green Belt. GB does have some "good info" about opportunities and casino vulnerabilities, or at least the best info one buy (it's not free to join) outside e-mail exchanges.
What Green Chip really is : a club for the Blackjack community. The club offers entertainment (e.g. non-Gambling) along with very good education about BJ and games of chance in general. We pay those 50 bucks to Stanford in order to keep the club open - and for us to keep coming, if only sometimes to lurk. We appreciate his stewardship of this here internet community and we find the website valuable enough to want to keep it going. But you can't expect someone to run such a big club for free!
Certain people in particular here feel they must promote other sites, to the point of showing poor taste at best. In my view, these people are nothing but sycophants.
I predict the same question will appear here in another week. There are already similarities in posting style between the two recent posts.
People behave better in a virtual community with a little exclusivity - out of that interaction grows real world camraderie, as well as success, and all the trolls in the world will only cause the established communities to grow at a faster rate.
I figure every time a troll posts about the existence of Green Chip, probably 4 or 5 people join just to see what it's about. Therefore, trolls could be responsible for 20% of the annual growth. Gotta love it.
Keep those trolls coming!
The continuing blackjack discussion on GC is always a new learning experience and it is one of the most sophisticated blackjack discussions on the internet. If you are a player, you can always find gems of knowledge on GC that go beyond the basic ABC's of card counting. For those who are sports bettors or who deal in other aspects of advantage gambling that are not related to blackjack, there are pages for that.
However, one of the most valuable aspects of Green Chip for me and many others who belong is the feeling of community. We enjoy one anothers' company, whether it is confined to the internet or in person at one of the many events, official and unofficial, that Green Chippers have planned over the years. I have made some very good and what I hope to be lifelong friendships with people on GC that I could not have made any other way. That alone was well worth the price of admission.
Just answer that question so that we know whether to take you seriously. If you have a personal problem with people selling products or services for money then simply direct those of your idiology to free areas you like. It is obvious that the amount of money is not an issue. So it must be the principle. I, myself, have no problem with people making money.
If my last paragraph is incorrect, then the alternative is that you have a personal grudge against Stanford Wong. If that is the case then just admit that so that we, again, can dismiss you.
You are not going to convince people that spending what is about half the price of a good book is unwarranted.
The Card Counters Cafe is good, clean of spam and very constructive (not to mention free). I'm sure that it too could have an archives section. Why don't people just move to other sites such as the Card Counters Cafe?
I know what you're getting at. Essentially what SW has done is sell people their own information. Ingenious. But, unlike some embittered souls at the old (still free) rec.gambling.blackjack I don't think this is a bad thing.
You find different info on different forums. GC is good for number-crunching, data and the fine detail of card-counting. You have a question about traditional advantage play and someone will give you an answer, simply because of the volume of traffic. And the archives are excellent.
The CCCafe on the other hand concentrates on newer and more sophisticated forms of advantage player and has a younger and more idealistic set of contributors.
Its just a question of what your priorities are. I don't subscribe to GC anymore, emerging gambling markets in my own country would mean much of the information posted would not be relevant to the type of wagers I make, but it still has a benefit for those who play casino blackjack seriously.
no-one has asked for my assistance in this matter, master psychologist that I am.
If someone is afraid to fork out the price of a cheap hooker, or a dinner for two, or a ride home from the casino in a limo rather than a taxi, then it can only be because he is nervous about his 'beginner status'. If he is hungry for more he will join. If he is befuddled by what goes on on the white pages of course he will hesitate to join.
Some people would rather walk home than not gamble their taxi money.
Don't thibk of it like a porno site, where you've had a perv on the free pages, & feel you have to buy a subscription -not because there is anything better about the non-free pages, but because, after using the free pages you feel like you OWE somebody!
and post alike, and not venture from the party line. Right Boot? And if you do you will be treated as a leper, disrespected and frozen out.
Ask the "Mayor". Ask me.
The fact is there is not alot of activity there but you will get more information that is not posted to free. The archives are good.
I like to support the site and not be a freeloader, so I pay my dues.
Joe.
DD':
I'm not sure what you are saying at all. I'm neither anti-capitalist nor have a grudge against Stanford Wong. Stanford does have a right to a profit. That is a large part of the process of writing and selling books such as Professional Blackjack etc (Pi Yee Press). However, green chip is different. SW isn't supplying information. We are. Essentially, we are paying for a forum/mesage board and nothing more. My quarrel is that counters don't need to pay for a forum to exchange ideas. There are other forums to accomplish the same goals as green chip. While not a significant price to pay, the low cost itself isn't a satisfactory reason for the forum's existence. I hope you can understand the problems I have.
puzzled
