Third times a charm

Posted this one on a couple other boards but didn't get any feedback. Anyone?

I live near Reno and would like to preserve longevity there. . . ideally be able to make 2-3 trips there each month, making a point to rotate which shifts I hit at a given casino so the floor doesn't think I'm driving up weekly.
I've been able to spread $5-$50 on single deck games; no play camo and very little bet camo. This came as a surprise to me. . . I may have faced some heat when I won 77 units in 50 minutes, but I'm still not sure if it wasn't just paranoia on my part. I'm wondering how far I can push this. Any comments from Reno low-stakes players? My next trip, I plan to attempt $5-$75.
My "cover" strategy is to attempt to win the friendship of the dealers and the floor, somewhat along Ian Anderson's lines. Rather than attempting to deceive the floor, I will try to win them over (via tips, entertaining them, giving attention to those who want it) so that they want me around. Keep the matter of whether or not I'm counting cards "off the agenda."
It seems to me it would be very helpful to use my real name and get player's cards at several casinos. One thought I've had is that at my stakes, simply having an impeccable "story" (ie, the truth), would provide quite a bit of relief from surveillance. Is this realistic? I guess my question is: Assuming a Reno casino spotted a highly skilled counter who was playing small stakes, how likely is it that they'd check around with other local casinos and connect the dots. . .
if they all had my real name?
if they had my photo but different names?
and if they did discover me, would they circulate photos at this bet level?
thanks in advance,
Myoo

There was a post either on this board or on AP, I think the former though, where someone was discussing how his wife played mostly BS but on occasion increased bets based on a ten-type, non-specific count for years at her local casino. She apparently was friends with all the dealers but she got backed off anyway. This suggests that your plan may work for some time but not in the long run. I tried to find the post but couldn't - maybe someone else who rembembers it will have better luck with the search engine.

I don't know for sure but I really doubt it's the dealers and/or pit bosses that decide when someone needs to stop playing. Most likely it's someone watching a video camera and they wouldn't care who likes you.

Good luck

I don't know if mine would be a good strategy, but I've thought about how I would approach a regular venue. This is not pro advice, so just some thoughts. You may want to consider playing a lot at one casino where comps are decent and you can become friendly. This pays for your overhead...get a discounted room and free meals. You may have to level bet...check out Comp City. Then use more of a hit and run strategy at nearby casinos. Your home base casino may have to be one that has lower EV as you don't want to waste a good EV joint on level bet, play all, comp strategy. I'm not familiar with Reno, but playing red chips with some ramp and a bit of cover doesn't seem like it would cause you too much trouble, but $5 to $75 is a big swing with no cover. Depending on how far you're traveling, it doesn't seem that playing 2 or 3 weekends a month would be too unordinary. I would think a lot of people do that...but ask other regular players if this is a major "tell". Now, if you give your real info and get players cards and they see that you're driving 4 hours just to play red chips with an obvious betting strategy, I think you're toast, unless you can appear to be a degenerate slihtly addicted gambler. That would require cover, I would think. Another thought is how much can you afford to lavish on casino personnel with a red chip unit? Your advantage is small, so a nice dress shirt for the pit boss would wipe you out plus he might think it odd for a small stakes player. If you're going that often, maybe you can make friends with some dealers which may inadvertently help you lay cover....don't tell them you count or recruit their direct help, but if they're friendly to you, that's one less thing to worry about. Plus you may have more lively interaction with a friend dealer which helps you appear more natural. As I said, just some random thoughts. Don't forget to have a life...one weekend a month for friends, family etc... and you'll look back and wonder why you spent so much time just to earn a few dollars. Make it work. Good luck.

At the stakes you describe, you cannot afford to tip and cannot afford any cover. You don't need either. Forget about it and play. You can play at almost every casino in the Reno area with impunity, if you limit your sessions to less than thirty or forty minutes. There are so many playable casinos; if you get backed off or pref shuffled, so what? Stay away from that shift for a few months and no one will remember you. Inter-casino communication in Reno is not efficient. Even if it was, no one is going to flyer a red chip player and no one would take such a flyer seriously.

Concentrate on getting in the hours under good conditions. Don't play any single deck game with more than one other player. Red chip players have close to twenty playable casinos in Reno/Sparks/Carson City/Minden -- nearly sixty different shifts to play. There is no need to camp out and get to know the dealers or pit.

A common mistake made by beginning Reno players is avoiding the D10 games. The D10 games are playable with seven rounds heads-up, which is the norm. Note the following, and play everywhere else:

Baldini's $50 table max is too low to bother with.

Circus Circus has many dealers who deliver the worst pen in Reno, and pref shuffle green and black chip players. It's been a long time since I played red chips, so I don't know if this would apply to your situation.

Eldorado, Harrah's, and Silver Legacy have no playable games for red chip players.

You should consider joining Green Chip. There are some good posts in the archives about single deck play, and the knowledge and wisdom of many of the posters will improve the game of even a red chip player. Good luck.

Thanks a ton, MGP and Snapper, for your comments. MGP, I couldn't find the story you were talking about, but I appreciate the point. And I guess just getting a player's card might buy some cover in the short run, but in the long run they'll register my winnings and the heat will come. I think I'll get a few player's cards at casinos with good promotions/mailers but poor or mediocre blackjack (recommendations anyone?) and just pay for the room and food at a discounted rate, rather than using up my time accumulating comps slowly.

As for tipping, I never go over $5 in an hour, which is not an insignificant amount at my play level, but it doesn't destroy my edge either. I do it partly because I think it would be cheap not to, but also because I suspect dealers have more sway on heat in the small red chip shops than would be the case at corporate or high-stakes joints. Doesn't this make sense? Don't these smaller casinos tend to rely more on the floor (and even dealers) and less on the eye? Finally, $5 an hour from one player is a decent tip for a dealer at these casinos, so it actually might curry favor. In any case, I stop tipping if I find that the dealer is not rooting for me in whatever way she can.

Snapper, I'll heed your advice and do my damnedest to not let blackjack eat up the rest of my life, though at the moment I'm having trouble finding anything remotely as fun to do with my time. :)

Thanks LVBear for all these specifics! Your post cleared a lot of things up for me. And, if there are others like you in the Green Chip pages, I think I'll be showing up before too long.

Got a friend that doesn't play BJ? Swap cards... Etc. Of course you are now "trading comps" with him/her, but that works...

LVB, Should he play at one or two places just to get lower room and board, Ala Comp City style? Myool, see Shady Lady thread re "sleeping where you crap".

LVB, how do you feel about betting a small wager for the dealer on your own stack? When I feel like tipping, I'll do this occasionally and just play it until I lose a hand. I believe this is cheaper than playing one out front for the dealer as you keep the original wager. However, if you split to 4 hands and double a couple, you have a lot bet for the dealer. Is this a bad idea at the red chip level? Green chip level?

I'm planning to do this. My only question is whether it matters if I look like the picture on their photo ID, if I match the height and weight listed, etc.

Does the pit make a photocopy of your ID?
Does it appear on their computer when they start tracking your player number?

Yes and yes.

I don't allow _anyone_ to copy my ID (driver's license). I simply answer "you can see it, but you are not going to touch it or copy it, because I'm not having that kind of personal information on a computer that can be hacked into. If you don't me to play here, I'll be happy to go somewhere else. But you aren't going to scan my license."

I've not had any problems doing that. On occasion I've been refused a player's card, but I know that every card I have has no picture ID on file.

One minor warning however, you ought to know _something_ about the card you are using. At least the name of the person, and perhaps some details about where they are from, etc. I was even wished "happy birthday" by one pit person returning a friend's card to me that I was using... You can't respond "What??? it isn't my birthday." :)

"crapping where you sleep..."

:)

Myooligan,

I have returned to casinos that had previously 86ed me and played with a card that I literally found at the casino with no problems so far. Apparently, when this casino (outside NV) enters the card in the pit, either no photograph is shown or I got incredibly lucky.

Of course, I used the card a few times (on different trips) before hitting the tables to check to see if anyone else was using it: since the player's point balance hadn't changed, I felt pretty sure the original owner wasn't still actively playing at that casino.

If they eventually 86 me again, I'm pretty sure I can find yet another card ;-)

Dog Hand

Should he play at one or two places just to get lower room and board, Ala Comp City style?

A red chip player has to profitably use every available minute on a trip to make his or her time worthwhile. In my opinion, the meager comps available to red chippers are not worth playing a weak comp game and further reducing the already-low hourly expectation of red chip play. Boomtown and Fitzgeralds are probably the most generous Reno stores with room comps for low-level players, so it might be worth using a player's card at those places and stretching session length a little bit. If the player gets backed off, the use of that player's card on future trips probably should be discontinued, or tested on a shift that the player doesn't normally play at that store.

In the absence of free or "casino rate" hotel rooms, a red chipper should stay at the cheapest places available. In my Reno red chip days, I frequently stayed at the dumpy Western Village in Sparks for $17 a night, or at Motel 6 at Virginia and Plumb Lane. If bankroll security is a concern, many casinos have free safe deposit boxes. Years ago, I was the only patron who used the one at Western Village. Of course, most Western Village patrons do not have �excess bankroll.� Eventually, Western Village discontinued the service.

LVB, how do you feel about betting a small wager for the dealer on your own stack?

I rarely tip. My records show that in the last 756 hours I have played, my tips total $54. Almost all of that was at Reno "go for your own" stores where dealers do not pool tips. I tip only if I believe I am getting a specific benefit from the tipping, and the added EV from that benefit exceeds the value of the tip. Those situations are rare. I see no benefit in tipping for most players, particularly those playing a hit-and-run style. My present max bet is $300 to $500, depending on the game and the store, but I well remember my red chip days. There are some exceptions to a strong no-tipping policy, but generally not for red chip players, who should strive to remain invisible.

I don't allow _anyone_ to copy my ID (driver's license). I simply answer "you can see it, but you are not going to touch it or copy it ..."

Well said. This should become automatic behavior for all casino patrons. There is no benefit to allowing casino employees to handle, copy, or scan your ID.

I've never handed them my license, and I've never had a problem.

I have lots of casino cards, and they have never had possession of my license.

I don't remove it. I don't remember where in Vegas I got static about this, but it was on the strip. They were insistent on my handing them my ID, I was more insistent in saying no. They refused me a player's card. I later sat down to play at a $25 table, they asked for my card, I said "I tried to get one but they would not give me one at the player's club window." "why"? Because I didn't want my license scanned and saved where it could be lost, or used unlawfully, etc. Pit boss got me a card with no problems and without doing more than eyeballing my license...

I've had 'em ask for my license when trying to cash in $100/$500 chips as well, and I have refused, been hassled a few times, but have always succeeded with a little persistence...

They seem to be overly fixated on ID at times...

Talk about brass ba**s... :)

Personally, I think the only time the card raises a red flag is if you did something stupid the last time you played using that card, they decided to do a skills check after you left, and then left a blunt note to the pit to phone upstairs if this card is used again...

That was my "Copa" mistake if you recall our conversation...

where they crap. Geez. Nasty. The thing is we aren't crapping, we're apping (AP ing).