Posting requirements?

And folks that want to be anonymous generally don't like to give out their email address. I recognize that a lot of posters already include an email address with their post, and that it is possible to use a "throwaway" address (like yahoo or hotmail), But for those that don't, giving out their email address could be at best uncomfortable.

A list of email addresses could be very useful for a counter-catcher. And even with the best intentions there is no way to absolutely guarantee the list would remain private (the site could be hacked or sold, the list could be subpoenaed, etc.) Valid or not, this concern may deter some counters giving out their address and thus from posting.

There are good arguments on both sides, but my preference would be not to require email addresses.

I agree that bj21 is convenient for quick posting. I would like to see the crowd use the same handle but I'm not too crazy about giving out my e-mail address and basicly audition.

I dont really see a major problem here. I do read many posts and I believe 99% of them are sincere opinions. I dont recgonize all this trash that Don S. and so and so are talking about. If someone thinks card counting does not work and progressions are better, this is only a general opinion of the person. I've seen a few of the so-called experts here in the past go off on a tangent calling these normal everyday people idiots,trolls,morans,etc. I have been called the same and I'm a successfull card counter who takes the game a little more serious than I probably should. Is this a problem here at bj21 or why it has become offended? I understand if a person is trying to cause a disturbance but in general most these comments are from ordinary people. I'll grant you I can walk into any casino,grocery store,movie theater etc. and talk to very intelligent people who do have somewhat of an understanding about casino gambling and feel it is impossible to beat the casinos or count cards good enough to win. I would not call these people idiots. I believe this was the biggest mistake DS has made on the internet and is in basic seclusion as a result. Had he viewed these people as sincere and not always assume they were trolling idiots he would probably be standing on a better note today.

It only takes a few moments to acquire a web-based e-mail address. It is not necessary to divulge any personal information in order to get one. You can still remain completely anonymous.

All this does is introduce a small degree of accountability into the overall scheme of things.

That I was trying to say that to keep an open forum open can be
extremly difficult at times. rge21 is not an open forum. For a
while this one was headed in the same direction. It would seem that
three degrees does not guarantee couth. One author bad mouthing
others based on his own self-worth was more obscene than the words
he would use. Every board gets its share of those who desire to be
destructive. Those on the board can help tone that down. The most
difficult to stop is one disruptor with another egging him on.
Best answer-same thing we need at a BJ table-dicipline-self control.

The only advantage to having a barrier to posting is you would encounter fewer objectionable posts. The only disadvantage is you would have to register every handle you wish to use. Even at its simplest, registration is cumbersome enough that some people who otherwise would have posted interesting messages will not bother getting permission to post.

[Disclaimer: The following post is serious. It may represent the opinion of a small minority but surely my visits to bj21.com count towards the hit total everyday.]

I'm afraid the above statement is, in fact, false. Someone with the time and inclination to harrass people on bj21.com will perhaps be slowed but will not be stopped by some handle-registration process. Let's not kid ourselves. Furthermore, countless contributers to the site will simply refuse to register handles and either go away or stop posting altogether.

Now, before I continue, allow me to say that I hope the handle registration change is put into place. I say this because, while I peruse bj21.com with regularity, I am actually a great detractor of its existence and I would like to see it die off. As soon as traffic is so low that the site is not worth the trouble to run, it will die, and this change will surely lead in that direction. All restrictive changes to a site such as this bring said site one step closer to losing the war with the sociopathic element which frequents it. I think all of the pages here - free, green, black and secure (surely no one believes the secure area is REALLY secure?) - do very little, if anything at all, to serve the interests of actual professional gamblers and are only damaging to our way of life. What they do accomplish is the bolstering of false hopes and fantasies to newbies and misled, delusional, recreational counters; all the while padding the pockets of PiYee press and its affiliates. Oh yeah, they also pander to those who feel the need to stroke their egos online through demonstration of their prodigious intelligence, vast stores of knowledge and unquestionable expertise. And worse still, professionals get outed here all the time in posts by those who lack the discression or sense to know better and those posts are never busted as fast as the posts which offend the sensibilities of a 'morally obligated' postbuster. Guess what: Griffin and others of their foul and festering ilk read these pages! My life will certainly be a lot easier when the likes of bj21.com are gone and forgotten.

I don't see what all the fuss is about regarding the so-called 'troublemakers' anyway. Just ignore them if they bother you! All of their posts are busted sooner or later anyway. I, for one, enjoy flamefests and the outing/belittling/harassment of casino personnel and Griffin types who frequent bj21.com. I also quite like the slamming of 'authorities' and such when their fraudulence is exposed by the 'troublemakers' with too much time on their hands. I logon pretty much only to read that type of stuff (and give the Venetian Counter Catcher a hard time) and I acutally would like to see more of it and less diligence in postbusting but, of course, as indicated in the disclaimer to this message, I am probably in a very small minority here so what I want probably doesn't count for much.

If the crux of the matter is that 'offensive' posts are appearing on the free pages with such frequency that they cannot be busted fast enough, then hire a few new postbusters! How hard can that be? Everyone loves to feel empowered, even if it is derived from something as trivial as being charged with the elimination of posts from a message board about blackjack. I even hear El Burro was volunteering to help out on that front. The other course of action which could resolve 'problems' such as this is to examine WHY such things are happening and try to confront that side of the issue. Though things like that, especially when they undermine the misconceptions upon which a person's very way of thinking are based and tear down the walls of disinformation in which people shelter themselves , are generally a tough pill to swallow in comparison to simply eliminating 'offensive' posts.

Anyhow Messrs. Wong, Matthews and others, best of luck in resolving your bj21.com posting conundrum. I'm sure, when everything is said and done, I'll still be able to get my daily dose of blackjack laughs by perusing the forums but, if I'm not, then things are looking up for me, professionally speaking.

aye dount know whot th' 'ell 'e means, dyou ? he means wot he means
at least I think he knows what he means-he sounds serious don't 'e ?

I'm probably in the minority here but I think something needs to be done, and a move to a semi-moderated board would be a good idea.

I've watched the rise of bj21 for a number of years. In the earlier years, I didn't post much, feeling not very worthy of offering my opinion. As my BJ knowledge has grown, I've posted more and more on the outside USA board for a number of years (I'm based in Australia).

I certainly gave a lot more than I got, basically answering questions, providing game conditions and helping newbies. I run a BlackJack school in Australia (for the love of it - we actually run at a slight loss!) and then "retired" from posting on bj21 earlier this year basically due to growing weary of perpetually being accused of posting merely for advertising value and other personal insults. I was freely offering good quality advice that I normally charge for, and I didn't feel like copping abuse for what was basically a "community" service.

In the earlier years bj21 had a "clubby" or "family" feel, almost like a fraternity. It felt like a group of guys (I'm guessing we're 95% male here) with a common goal, to extract EV from the casinos. We'd swap info on games and strategies, and I made some genuine contacts.

But as the daily hit rate increased, it's become more like a stage that people act on. Instead of the means to the end, bj21 has become an end in itself. I think people on bj21 get far too personal about things. I guess you can't change human nature.

Don't get me wrong, I think bj21 is a great thing. But something does need to be done about these infantile posts. I think the postbusters do a sterling job, but I'd support a move to a semi-moderated situation. It certainly might encourage me to resume posting.

I recognise that there are times where one requires anonymity. But that would just be a case of setting up a "throwaway" email address. Maybe infantile posters would be less motivated if they had to jump through this extra hoop.

I think email registration would be a good idea. For the majority of the time, one could use one's normal handle, with a consistent (yet anonymous) email address. Then, for the occassional time when one required anonymity (for example, not wanting to give away a location), one could jump through the extra hoop of setting up a throwaway email address. The postbusters should be much less lenient for unrecognised handles than recognised handles (apologies to the Americans for the English spelling).

Recognised handles tend to build their own reputations over time, and serious posters with reputations to protect tend to think before they shoot their mouth off. It's the imposters and weird handles that need scutiny.

Just my 2 cents worth. Glad to see SW considering this very important topic, keep up the good work.

Andrew W Scott

I almost never read the free pages any more, let alone post on them, because there is too much drivel to wade through.

My 2 cents,
sargon

I'm not saying let any knucklehead post whatever he wants, there have been many a posts busted by the moderators due to considerations raised in your post. There are many posters that just have a comment regarding subjects in a thread, that might not get posted if they need to "reveal" themselves or "register" to do so. That would be a loss of a valuable opinion to a discussion. The GC paid board acts as a filter (I think) for those who do not feel inclined to wade through the rhetoric on these pages. The "free pages " should remain "free". If that is unworkable by the hosts or has become cumbersome to administrate, then they should be eliminated as a resource rather than restricted.

at first, I am reluctant to give out my email address. There are some boards covering other topics I read, but do not post on because of the registration requirement. I think there will be a drop in the volume of posts espescially on the beginner's page, but with an encouragement to register and an assurance of privacy, the numbers can be kept high. Registration is a worthwhile "price" for the users to pay to assure the quality of the boards. Maybe you can also bait the registration with a promo offer such as a temporary discount on items from the online catalog.

Sentry

BJ21 does not hurt Casinos and it does not hurt card counters. This site (and most Blackjack books) are about as useful as the average diet book. Unless the individual follows through and reads the text, gains an understanding, and puts the information into practice with discipline, they will fail. Failing is the expected outcome without an educated, disciplined approach.

I own a garage, some tools and some books (I never finished reading) on home repair. With those same tools and data, some men could build a palace. If I devoted myself with my current knowledge and ability, I could build a crooked birdhouse.

If Casinos passed out free copies of Stanford Wong's Professional Blackjack to every customer, I doubt their bottom lines would budge by more than a few decimal points. Having the information is very different from being able to use the information successfully. Most beggining card counters run with scissors. They learn just enough to make bigger bets and soon go down in flames. This site is no threat to casinos. If anything, it probably gives them more customers just as Thorp's Beat The Dealer did. "Fish" learn that Blackjack can be beaten and they run to a casino without really knowing how to play. Most people interested in counting are already gamblers. Unless they learn a whole new way of thinking, the pit boss could call out the count for them and they would probably still lose.
The high mortality rate for new businesses is well known- even well planned, sound concepts can tank. The chances for the half-assed card counter are surely no greater.

This site provides a forum for useful information to Blackjack players, but it is not enough. The missing ingredients necessary to win are a strong will backed with discipline.

Sentry

forms and must take a stand when it is threatened.

Joe.

BJ21 does not hurt Casinos and it does not hurt card counters.

You are half right. Bj21 does not hurt casinos. It actually helps them and their Griffin-type buddies far more than it does advantage players or would-be advantage players. It only hurts professionals. More than once, I have seen professionals outed on these boards by some numbskull posting about what he saw or heard in a casino and I'm sure it will happen again and again. And such posts never get busted anywhere near as fast as the posts which are deemed 'offensive'. Give me a break. This site is, on the whole, a detriment to professionals and only serves to make the recreationalists think they are a part of something great and fascinating.

The First Amendment protects us from government, not private firms.

We have to deal with government (obey laws, pay taxes, etc.), but no one makes you come to bj21. You could always go to rge21, bjrnet. ccc, or wherever suits your fancy, if you don't like the rules here.

Sincerely,
sargon

More than once, I have seen professionals outed on these boards by some numbskull posting about what he saw or heard in a casino...

Could you give some examples of this? I don't read every post on every board, but I've been coming here for quite some time and I can't recall any specific instances of this. Perhaps you could give some specifics.