dealers changing penetration after a good shoe

6 deck shoe dealer cuts off 1.5 decks. I play minimum bets, the count rises and my max bets are out for the remainder of the shoe. The next shoe the dealer now cuts off 2+ decks, one time the dealer even cut off close to half the shoe. Are the dealers trained to do this is they suspect someone is counting? Do they do this on thier own for some reason? I've noticed the same thing in double deck games. If so why would they care if a player is counting cards? It doesnt affect them in any way right?
I've also seen times when my max bets were winnning, and the dealer seems pissed off, or gives me this rude stare like im doing something wrong. I dont tip, could this be on of the main reasons?

The average dealer doesn't know much about card counting but there are some who know that counters usually raise their bets towards the end of the shoe and that cutting off more cards is an efficient measure against them.
Usually they are not supposed to act on their own initiative,they have to wait for a word from the pit boss.
Dealers sure want you to lose even more so if they cannot expect any tips.They want to feel useful and earn money for their company.They are proud if they win and they feel ashamed if they lose.

Francis Salmon

I know of a casino where their dealers are told that after someone raises their bets late in the shoe, to cut deeper.
If the dealer is in the know and receives no tokes, why not cut deeper.
Indian places that do not like backing people off seem to tell the relief dealer to cut half the shoe when they come in.
The dealer may know you count and tokes mean nothing if that dealer is looking to make points or move up the corporate food chain.

When it happens, depending on my thoughts about the casino, I take one of two approaches.
1. Leave after a few hands, figuring I was made and staying might help them remember me.
2. Play basic strategy for a shoe or two and see if it was a test and also see what the relief dealer does. As a test I mean that a smart pit knows that ploppys do not care, nor have any clue about penetration and that only a counter would leave when penetration goes south. Could also see if the same thing repeats itself on another table.

Good dealers are good actors. The act gets them the tokes but the job is to take your money.

>>I've also seen times when my max bets were winnning, and the dealer seems pissed off, or gives me this rude stare like im doing something wrong. I dont tip, could this be on of the main reasons?

Yes.

No dealer gives a rats ass about the company either.

>>If the dealer is in the know and receives no tokes, why not cut deeper.

If the dealer is in the know, he/she will shuffle track and hand off the cut to someone who they know will cut in a certain spot, thus giving a negative shoe. The dealer will cut the positive decks out of play whether it be one deck or 3 decks.

Richard

Perhaps you can shuffle track but really what percentage of dealers do you expect us to believe can actually do this. Reducing penetration is also much easier and some places use automatic shuffle machines (not CSM's).

Richard

Thought more about your answer. You have more than the counter at the table (you pass the cut to someone else) and in order to beat this counter you are willing to shuffle track, purposely cutting out decks of good cards and in effect cheating perhaps both the counter and all the other players at the table. Worse than only dealing negative shoes. You can deal a highly positive one where the big cards never come out.
If done by chance, no big deal. If done on purpose, CHEATING!!! No different in my opinion to adding 6's and 5's to a shoe or removing big cards from it.

"If done on purpose, CHEATING!!! No different in my opinion to adding 6's and 5's to a shoe or removing big cards from it."

Cutting off the shoe is one thing .. the counter sees it and leaves; mission accomplished.

Purposefully setting up a negative EV shoe hurts the innocents; it's shameful.

"Purposefully setting up a negative EV shoe hurts the innocents; it's shameful."

.. it's also stupid, Richard.

Most counters don't shuffle track and they are so slow at the switch that they might stay there for a few more shoes keeping that seat filled by a non-tipper.

You accomplished nothing for yourself.

Just a little petty revenge extracted on the counter and everyone else playing at the table -including those good tipping customers.

Brilliant move on your part.

Keep in mind anything is possible. When you don't toke like me dealers will
go out of their way to reshuffle on hand held decks when you push out a big bet.
If they're in the know they will cut really deep into a new shoe or outright cheat you.
Just move on if this happens. Dealers don't care about you. They are dealing most
people a losing game and they know it.

Just a little petty revenge extracted on the counter and everyone else playing at the table -including those good tipping customers.

Tippers on the table? Then it won't happen.

Tippers on the table? Then it won't happen.

You are right-tipping won't happen. Not while dealers like you walk and breathe anyway.

About .001% of dealers are qualified to pull of a shuffle-tracking move like you describe. You, certainly, do not know what you are talking about. I'd like to see you outline the map of even the simplest shuffle.

About .001% of dealers are qualified to pull of a shuffle-tracking move like you describe.

On a two pass, I would guess that your estimate is off by about 0.001%. It is most probably off by exactly 0.001% with respect to riverboat dealers on this board.

Math Boy

Richard,

What do you consider an acceptable tip?

So, you'll cheat non tipping players......I'm sure your employer and the State gaming commission would be interested in hearing all about it. Where'd you say you worked??...And your badge number is??

If anyone knows Richard's identitiy, do the gaming industry a favor and report him to the appropriate gaming commission, he doesn't deserve to hold a gaming license.

At the very least, any casino employee who advocates cheating players should be barred from this site and any others that derive their income from advantage players.

After reading Richards cheating patron policy, I regret ever giving any dealer a tip, but that's a mistake that can be easily remedied in the future.

I'm not Richard. It is my policy to never toke.