What's the deal on shuffle tracking?

or is this just a personal feeling/local observation, or what?

I have to admit that in the past few years I have limited my play to the Miss. Gulf Coast, which is preponderantly auto shufflers.

I refuse to go to Atlantic City because of the conditions, but friends tell me it's all automatic shufflers up there.

I've also relied on the message here and elsewhere which indicated to me that much of the mid-west is also auto shufflers.

I've not been to Nevada since '99, mostly because I found the conditions in Laughlin, Vegas and Mesquite to be no better, and usually worse, than in Gulfport/Biloxi.

So I have to admit that I merely *assumed* that the bulk of the "industry" had gone over to auto shufflers. If that assumption is not correct, then I stand corrected.

Personally, I find the auto shufflers easier to beat than manually shuffled games. In my experience, auto shuffled games have fewer of the extreme "variances" all too frequently experienced in manually shuffled games.

I attribute this to more thorough shuffling.

If you can't watch the shuffle, you can't track it.

"Auto shuffled games have fewer of the extreme "variances" all too frequently experienced in manually shuffled games."

You heard it right here folks. Step right up! Get your auto shuffler and then know how to be a winner. No pushing please. Only one to a customer.

"most casinos today use shuffling machines"

I asked you to substantiate this statement, because I believe it to be wrong. You now respond to my request with "If you can't watch the shuffle, you can't track it."

How has your response post provided any data to support your previous statement? Or, are you one of those that just likes to post without being able to provide facts when questioned? It appears so!

Why don't you just say you were incorrect and let's move forward?

One of the local Indian joints where I put in a lot of hours uses automatic shufflers. Anyone who thinks that a game using these things will not be subject to "extreme variances" simply has not put in the hours.

Another local casino up until recently had two identical double deck games, except that one table had an automatic shuffler, and the other was hand shuffled. I often hopped back and forth beween the two, playing whichever table was less crowded, with no differences observed.

Actually, this serves to disprove another myth. Often, a table would suddenly become empty due to a "hot" dealer making a lot of multi-card 20's and 21's, etc. Sometimes the dealers would even discourage me from playing. If there were anything to this "table bias" nonsense, I should have repeatedly gotten my a** kicked, since I was going out of my way to play the "bad" tables. Didn't happen.

"The casinos have certainly made attempts to limit the effectiveness of tracking, as in general shuffles are much tougher than they used to be. The days when you could make a healthy professional salary simply by knowing the basics of tracking are gone, but it is still a powerful weapon in the advantage player's arsenal."

Thanks Mr. May. Puts a new light on the subject. I like the point of "another weapon in one's arsenal"! I know this subject is mentioned in your book... Is it dealt with "in passing" or do you "delve" any into the mysteries of tracking and how to utilize it?

Now, if I could only figure out how to beat online Blackjack! Just kidding... I think that is more of a "inexpensive" pastime than an "advantage" play. I'm NOT convinced. :)

I wrote:

"In my experience, auto shuffled games have fewer of the extreme "variances" all too frequently experienced in manually shuffled games."

You reply with:

"A new ploppie myth."

O.K., let's try this:

I just looked out my window and saw the sky is blue, the sun is shining, and my lawn needs mowing.

Go ahead, attack *that* personal observation all you want. I'm sure that *somewhere* else the sky is clouded over and/or it's nighttime and/or the lawn has either just been mowed or has died out.

...which statement you wanted data for.

I simply assumed you were challenging my statement that you can't track automatic shuffles.

I response to your specific point is in another post.

of the "looking out the window and the sky is blue" statement, and taking into consideration the 'quality' of your other 'observations' and the 'opinions' you derive from these 'observations', I would have to ask the following questions:

Is the 'blue' that you say the sky is in your world, is that the same 'blue' that normal humans see here on earth?

Are you sure you are looking out your window? Someone might have put a vacation type travel poster up on the wall that you have been staring at.

Sorry, I'm afraid I would have to ask for some confirmation of your statements from some recognized authorities in sky and lawn conditions, before taking your statements at face value.

Confirmation that has been lacking in any of your blackjack statements from anyone that could be considered knowledgable about the game. In fact, several knowledgable posters have directly refuted your statements. If I were a streak follower, I would have to go with "it is night, and you don't have a lawn".