"The Ghost"

"This from the poster [Cyrus] who claimed BJA was worth more to the pro than Beyond Counting. 'Nough said."

No, not 'nough, sorry. I do not recall ever claiming such a thing, at least not the way you state it. I do recall writing, on the other hand, that Don had nothing to teach us ("yet!") about CSMs and other, current stuff. And I happen to have the highest regard for BC so I don't know where you get those kind of weird fantasies.

If the post at the link is what you remember, read it again. (But I must warn you, it's pro-Schlesinger!..)

but why should the facts matter when we're discussing "luminaries"?

It was a normal 5 and 1/4 inch floppy disk, witnessed by Paul Keen and Howard Swartz, and Don Schlesinger's story posted here---seek the archives Green Chippers---was eventually an admission he was given such a disk and could not use it himself (accepted! DS on rge21.com's new computers for counters shows he is still all thumbs reguarding computers) but that his computer guy might have. That is the truth and I would advise you to at least go by Don's admissions on this very board if you would please!

Ataris 6502 based computers did have disk drives for them too you know all unwise passer of highly conventionalized missinformation---OK I am joking and being snotty there. But the following cutting edge programs had their origin as Atari 8-bit computer programs:

Corel's Officewritter. This program takes MS-Word files that have spreadsheet data in them and relates the text to new documents with similar spreadsheet data. From that similarity it generates new first draft text. The program began as Outline Processor from the old Antic and APX catalogs. Then Ewing solutions software used this to develope Reportwriter where the outline processor engine was used to track how government forms were to be filled in by teachers of special education students (Cyrus?--OK another dirty crack too funny to passup). The program had a hidden agenda that only lazy teachers would be the most likely to use it but such teachers would have to pay attention to their reports to use it properly. I am still owed money for suggesting the conversion to Officewriter since another company now is using the courts to challenge Corel's purchase etc.

3D modeler had its origins as an Atari 130XE program that while being damn slow, (3 hours to surface shade-in a wireframe model--yikes!) on the Atari, still does about the same job that the present version does.

The linux programs turbo-basic and turbo-calc were direct descendents of Atari 800 programs of the same name. The Atari turbo basic XE used in fact similar memory tactics, to get around the old 640K limits from MS-DOS, that were used to stuff part of itself in the 16K of ram that the system ROMs of the XL/XE systems normally used. This is why turbo-basic is so handy for running on minimal Linux systems, but can still run the same programs in the more popular GUIs for Linux.

There is a warehouse that Hasbro owns now that is chock full of old Atari documents that is due to be auctioned off this fall, in South Lake Tahoe. Alot of those docs deal with some very advanced topics and neither you or I are in the league to bid on them I suspect.

So get it right---it makes your insults more fun to read as well:-)

Notice that I could have called you a liar but I didn't and I won't. I don't want the postbusters to spare the audience the spectacle of Keystone Cops chasing after ghosts.

Read with me carefully what is written in the post of mine you linked to:

A pro is also NOT looking out for text #2 [such as "Beyond Counting"] : What kind of "pro" is he when he's waiting from some kinda book to enlighten him about front-loading or legal past-posting?! The pro learns these things the hard way, meaning by himself, by the teachings of other pros or through the school of hard knocks. Grosjean's book did NOT teach the true pros much. It merely brought to the masses of casual players out there the information that the pros already knew - albeit in a very disciplined, concise and precise manner. Any pro who only found out by that book that there's a way to beat craps, was no pro really.

See how simple and plain it all is? It's your turn now to respond whether the above is accurate or not.

I'm sure that in your haste to "make a point", you will claim that BC taught you this and taught you that, etc. I will let you fall for the fork, my "pro" friend. I was never one to stop the fall guy from falling.

--Cyrus

Grosjean's book did NOT teach the true pros much.

there is subject ground in beyond counting that i submit to you that no pro was aware of until james did the math. i leave it to you to figure out what it is. imo, it is the most important bit of info for the pro and recreational player in the last 20 years.

What he calls the "Old Atari Tapes story!" never had anything to do with tapes by the admission of all the parties involved. See the rule on posting deliberately inaccurate information!

an array of tactics. See the threads I tried to start discussion of what index changes you might use to assign to conditional probabilities of aces, tens and low cards, for when your true count might be high enough to ignore a usually highly accurate, or less so, prediction of the hole card. It was an attempt to start discussion on Going Beyond Counting in these topics.

Alas it was not approved subject as it did not meet the usual requirements of the usual suspects for discussion!

prevaricating anymore?

this is a more specific situation.

I'll break RS only to respond to this nonsense submitted by the professional player extraordinaire of this forum. A good time to clear the air about a coupla things. (Sorry, F.)

"There is subject ground in Beyond Counting that I submit to you that no pro was aware of until James did the math. I leave it to you to figure out what it is. IMO, it is the most important bit of info for the pro and recreational player in the last 20 years."

And I submit to you that I have figured things about BC that you, the consummate pro, aren't even aware of as we speak.

The context of my post about BC was a defense of Donald Schlesinger's absolutely tremendous contribution to the game of Blackjack which I had grown tired at the time seeing it dismissed and downplayed by a bunch of shoulda-known-better's and wannabe badasses. I will readily admit that I have gone overboard in my attempt to do that when comparing Don's contribution with others' and my willy-nilly categorisation of BC was no way of defending BJA -- it's what regularly happens when you try to praise Jerry Lee by downplaying Elvis. So, to sum, BC is an extraordinary piece of work, IMO.

But enough about me! The fact that the professional player extraordinaire of this forum is keeping tabs on everything I write and is actually more keenly watching and lurking here than he wants us to believe through his pretext of casual indifference, is most encouraging.

There's hope for you yet, stalker.

--Cyrus

PS : For the various categories of players in this page watching with amazement -- Do not be fooled! And don't you worry, things are as clear as they should be. The primary quality of a true pro player, and a good one at that, is first and foremost his ability to withstand pressure. More than anything else. In other words, his cool. Watch the attitude of someone like DD' on this board, or gehrig's elsewhere, and try to adopt it. See, the way you interact with other people is indicative of the way you interact with adversity.

And I submit to you that I have figured things about BC that you, the consummate pro, aren't even aware of as we speak.

If only you knew how absurd this statement is.

PS : For the various categories of players in this page watching with amazement -- Do not be fooled! And don't you worry, things are as clear as they should be. The primary quality of a true pro player, and a good one at that, is first and foremost his ability to withstand pressure. More than anything else. In other words, his cool. Watch the attitude of someone like DD' on this board, or gehrig's elsewhere, and try to adopt it. See, the way you interact with other people is indicative of the way you interact with adversity.

What, so now YOU are the pro player extraordinaire since you know exactly what it takes to be a true pro? Please. The primary quality of a true pro player is his ability to make a living as a pro player. Withstanding pressure is but a small factor in this, and making the presumption that someone's attitude here on bj21.com is at all indicative of his ability to take money from a casino is sheer folly, especially when you consider the circumstances under which some people are here - like DD' for instance.

Are you a pro player, Cyrus?

Secondly since you brought up DD'
"The primary quality of a true pro player, and a good one at that, is first and foremost his ability to withstand pressure. More than anything else. In other words, his cool. Watch the attitude of someone like DD' on this board, or gehrig's elsewhere, and try to adopt it."
nothing against DD', he is a good player, but fact is stalker's success in the casinos is much larger. Ask DD' if you don't believe it.

Cyrus calls disks: tapes. ML keeps missquoting.

BTW I got what you had in mind from BC, but I tried to change the subject to something similar but less specific. I had one post busted for being too specific about a tactic El Burro has mentioned before.

I hope too that I was not too specific mentioning to John May one way hole card tactics can still apply in ENHC games, on the newbee page here.

"If only you knew how absurd this statement is."

I get it. You are saying you're Grosjean !

"...especially when you consider the circumstances under which some people are here - like DD' for instance."

For those that are too innocent to understand, our one-off-handle poster is insinuating that DD' is a shill here.

"The primary quality of a true pro player is his ability to make a living as a pro player.
Withstanding pressure is but a small factor in this."

If only you knew how absurd this statement is.

--Cyrus

PS: A hint : Watch more sports, if casino games got you seeing only the trees. Who knows, some day you may realize that knowing the ropes plus a few tricks do not a great player or coach make. Among the necessary qualitties, "withstanding pressure" is an asbolute must, a big, big factor in professional success. Believe otherwise at your peril.

dance the strawman dance all you want, your words speak for themselves.

... no tears.

You understood nothing. But it is not news, of course, that you never have no interest whatsoever in understanding anyone else's words but your own. Case in point, where you happen to be wrong about my rating of BJA and BC.

You don't really think that I expect anything more from you, do you ?

(As a matter of fact, your recent behavior, even if totally closed-minded, is an improvement! We should be glad that you're not bombing & flaming the place under a zillion aliases. "Your words speak for themselves.")

I get it. You are saying you're Grosjean !

No, apparently you don't get it. But that's nothing new, as the link stalker has been kind enough to share with us shows.

For those that are too innocent to understand, our one-off-handle poster is insinuating that DD' is a shill here.

Not exactly a shill, but definitely a cog in the bj21 machine. I doubt he would dispute that.

"The primary quality of a true pro player is his ability to make a living as a pro player.
Withstanding pressure is but a small factor in this."

If only you knew how absurd this statement is.

Are you a professional player? I don't think you are, which basically means you have zero credibility when it comes to talking about what it takes to make it as a professional player.

PS: A hint : Watch more sports, if casino games got you seeing only the trees. Who knows, some day you may realize that knowing the ropes plus a few tricks do not a great player or coach make. Among the necessary qualitties, "withstanding pressure" is an asbolute must, a big, big factor in professional success. Believe otherwise at your peril.

You can withstand pressure all day long but, if you can't get the money, it's not going to help you one iota. My adroit proclamation on what it takes to make it from my prior post stands.

PS: A hint: Maybe you should spend less time watching TV.

"Are you a professional player? I don't think you are"

Pray tell, upon what evidence do you base this assumption about my humble person -- or anyone else posting anonymously on the world wide-eyed web ? It will be entertaining for a post or two to read unto your tele-pathetic prowess.

And I'm kind in my italicizing.

"You can withstand pressure all day long but, if you can't get the money, it's not going to help you one iota. My adroit proclamation on what it takes to make it from my prior post stands."

It stands only on one leg, if at all. This is not a matter of opinion, it's just a cold hard definition of a successful professional self-employed person.

Let me make it simpler for you: The set of people who possess the technical abilities for a certain endeavor contains a subset of people who are also accomodating to pressure. This subset however will always be found to contain almost only persons that are successful in that endeavor. You will find, of course, successful persons throughout the rest of the main set but the ratio is quite low and the requirements in technical abilities generally higher. That's the true-life picture, also applicable in successful pro play at 21 and other casino games.

"Maybe you should spend less time watching TV."

It figures. Watching sports translates for you into watching TV! What can I say.

"Are you a professional player? I don't think you are"

Pray tell, upon what evidence do you base this assumption about my humble person -- or anyone else posting anonymously on the world wide-eyed web ? It will be entertaining for a post or two to read unto your tele-pathetic prowess.

Just answer the question, smart guy. It doesn't take a telepath to know you don't have what it takes to be a professional. In fact, just looking at the link stalker keeps posting is all it takes to know the approximate level of your ability. So are you going to answer the question or just continue to dodge it?

Let me make it simpler for you: The set of people who possess the technical abilities for a certain endeavor contains a subset of people who are also accomodating to pressure. This subset however will always be found to contain almost only persons that are successful in that endeavor. You will find, of course, successful persons throughout the rest of the main set but the ratio is quite low and the requirements in technical abilities generally higher. That's the true-life picture, also applicable in successful pro play at 21 and other casino games.

Blah, blah, blah. You can attempt to argue semantics all day but the simple fact is the professional is defined by his ability to get the money. He can be the most brilliant person on earth, able to withstand megapressure but, if he can't get the money, he doesn't have what it takes. And, yes, sometimes gambling can be a high pressure situation and being able to withstand it is important, but I've found plenty of high-EV/low-pressure scenarios in my day too. Withstanding pressure is great, but it's far from any guarantee of success and it is pretty low on the totem pole of what it takes to make it.

I'm sure you can't be so thick as to not agree with my above paragraph in its entirety...if you have ANY casino gaming experience at all, so I don't think going on is necessary. If you disagree that my original statement, "The primary quality of a true pro player is his ability to make a living as a pro player." then you've got to have minimal electrochemical activity going on above the shoulders. If you can't accept that simple fact, then you are obviously either beyond hope or you just enjoy arguing for the sake of argument (which seems to be the case since you're often wrong but never in doubt).

It figures. Watching sports translates for you into watching TV! What can I say.

When applied to you, yes. You can talk a good game but I'm certain you don't make any money betting sports much like I'm certain you're not a professional player.