The Blackjack Community

I'm going to opine on the BJ Community (the BJC) and their collective public silence as they stand back and watch a rogue element of the community itself attempt to re-write the history of BJ -while they look on and say nothing.

Many, if not most, of the BJC (included in this are the pros to be sure) are probably not enamored with Arnold Snyder�s (AS) effort to erase Don Schlesinger�s (DS) contribution to the body of BJ work. They are unwillingly however -as in the laws of diminishing returns -to be antagonistic towards him. Moreover, many will actually see an upside to being on friendly terms with AS at any cost.

I am familiar with the laws of diminishing returns, and I am aware there is no �advantage� to jumping in a fight that has no upside for you personally.

But put very plainly, the effort now afoot to marginalize and trivialize the contribution DS has made to the BJC is shameful. Almost as shameful as the deafening silence from the community itself.

Sometimes people do what is right, what is required of them to do �because it is right.

In November, when the Blackjack Historian (no, I don�t know exactly who that is but lets just say it was AS himself; he has the post prominently displayed on his website) took the first shot across DS�s bow only one or two individuals with any BJ credibility chose to speak out and call it what it was.

As a relative new-timer to the BJC, I was actually shocked, on several levels, at the deafening silence that surrounded that post.
First of all, the premise is ludicrous. If the logic in that epistle is accurate, all but a few individuals since the Four Horsemen should be returning their medals, their accolades, and their BJHOF certificates.

Second, here is AS himself in so much admitting that he published DS�s works as gospel, that he quotes DS in his own texts, and that he endorsed DS�s published works only so he could sell books and periodicals. For all the new-timers out there relying on your word, AS �thanks; thanks a lot.

Third, that AS would post or allow it to be posted anonymously. Cowardice at best.

You can have whatever opinion you care to have of DS, but that article demanded an outcry from the BJC. And it was silent.

Hind-sight being what it is, it�s easy enough to see now that when that post was made, the senior members of the BJC already knew exactly what was only days away; the second coming of the new BJFOL. Admittedly, I was dumbfounded then at the silence, but now I understand �no advantage in telling AS he was wrong or out of line �better wait and see how things play out; that is the advantage play.

And the beat goes on to marginalize DS.

I guess once you find out that you (AS) can actually admit that everything you said and published about a man for the last twenty years was .. crap, just wrong, a lie, whatever .. and nobody will call you out on it, you come to believe you must truly be larger than life, that you can expand on the hypocrisy, and sully others reputation to suit your pleasure along the way.

How about it Michael Dalton? How about it Bill Zender? How about it Steve Forte? DS endorsed McDowell�s book and AS (Yoko, Radar O�Reilly, Blackjack Historian, is there any real difference) says it�s a load of crap. Huh. AS try�s to give you guys a pass when he says you endorsed the book without reading it or if you did read it you didn�t understand it, or if you understood it just did it for the money. Is that right?

So, what? What else is there?

I post here as it is impossible for me to post freely at AS�s site and I don�t want to infer that AP.com shares all my views here equally. I have no idea; I didn�t ask.

I�m not a lot of things. Not a professional BJ player. Not a BJ math geek. Not an author. Not a board op. Not a hero worshipper. I�ll never be invited to the BJBall and probably never have dinner with anyone mentioned in this post. I�m just one of the guys on the edge of the BJC peering in.

But I am amazed .. that the BJC �the senior members, the professional members �in particular, would remain silent while one of it�s long time contributors, educators, and friend is vilified in public.

I myself find it shameful. How many pieces of silver does it take to purchase silence like that?

The opposite of love is not hate, it is apathy. If you have hate then you are still involved. I think the apathy towards AS's site speaks volumes for the opinion people have towards what's going on there.

Your call to arms is mis-understanding the power of the message that *is* being sent.

It could be that not everyone in the blackjack community is paying a lot of attention to the squalid squabbling that is going on at other blackjack sites, nor do they wish to get involved in it. Don's work will stand or fall on its own merit.

I haven't studied shuffle-tracking and ace prediction yet, but I have been accumulating the resources. I have changed from an unbalanced count to a balanced one. I have saved informative posts and articles about it in a notebook, and I have obtained George C's Shuffle Tracking for Beginners and Advanced Card Counting, James Grosjean's Beyond Counting, and Arnold Snyder's The Blackjack Shuffle Tracker's Cookbook.

You have to get your library when you can. Beyond Counting is an excellent indication as to why.

Currently, I am finally getting to enjoy reading Uston's The Big Player due to a fellow Greenchipper's generosity.

I was considering buying McDowell's book, but Arnold Snyder does have some strong points against the book.

I would like to hear some discussion of the validity or lack thereof about this book here on this site.

"I'm going to opine on the BJ Community (the BJC) and their collective public silence as they stand back and watch a rogue element of the community itself attempt to re-write the history of BJ -while they look on and say nothing."

It's called not offering an opinion when you don't have all the facts, and it's generally regarded as a mark of integrity.

"In November, when the Blackjack Historian (no, I don�t know exactly who that is but lets just say it was AS himself; he has the post prominently displayed on his website)"

This is nonsense. You don't know it, but "let's just say it"?? Let's not. It was also prominently posted here. Should we just say SW = BH?

"Third, that AS would post or allow it to be posted anonymously. Cowardice at best."

To the best of my knowledge, 99+% of the posts on every serious AP board are anonymous. Is "Sun Runner" your real name??

"You can have whatever opinion you care to have of DS, but that article demanded an outcry from the BJC. And it was silent."

It was not, in fact, silent about that post. There is a tradition on the internet of honoring free speech, almost to the point of anarchy. People have a right to their opinion. An "outcry" would be plain silly.

"AS (Yoko, Radar O�Reilly ... is there any real difference)"

Um, yes? These are all different people?

"I guess once you find out that you (AS) can actually ..."

What about DS' recent comment about AS? It predates the AS McDowell article. It may have been intended as a joke, but I'm not sure -- and I don't care enough to ask. It doesn't matter.

"I post here as it is impossible for me to post freely at AS�s site and I don�t want to infer that AP.com shares all my views here equally. I have no idea; I didn�t ask."

I don't think there's a reason in the world you couldn't post freely at AS' site, as long as you try not to slander anyone and show a little respect for the man who literally made DS' blackjack reputation.

The point is, everyone has strengths and weaknesses. Arnold misses some things; Donald misses some things; I miss things; you miss things. Just ask either DS or AS to pick the top two blackjack authorities in the following list: Jerry Patterson, John Patrick, Don Schlesinger, Arnold Snyder. I think both would come up with the same names.

Enough already.

ETF

The same message of silence we heard through-out the 50s and 60s -until a little old black lady said enough was enough?

Silence can send a message, I agree with you. But sometimes, it is shameful.

The same message of silence we heard through-out the 50s and 60s -until a little old black lady said enough was enough?

Silence can send a message, I agree with you. But sometimes, it is shameful.

You should be ashamed to compare the civil rights movement to one guy's opinion of Don S. That is on the order of comparing the holocaust to your neighbor kicking your dog.

Believe me, you would rather hear silence than the opinions of a lot of people with whom you are going to disagree. Sometimes it is better to keep your opinions out of the public eye instead of heaping on the abuse.

Can't you keep this personal crap off at least one board?

Math Boy

I know this is a bad thing to ask, and perhaps you (nor anyone else) is willing to answer, but here goes anyway. :)

I've been playing/counting for a little over four years now. Never even considered the idea that card counters would meet on a public internet forum because as a computer scientist, I realize how trivial it is to track a post back to a real person, given the time and money needed. And since casinos have lots of both, I figured everyone would keep to themselves, or perhaps have friendly get-togethers in some venue like Vegas, on occasion. I was quite surprised a few months back to find out that there were multiple "virtual gathering places" and started to read and join in.

I've had favorable interactions with many different people, yourself included even though you (correctly) chided me for posting too many explicit details of my "adventures". I have had conversations with Don, Parker, Eliot, Norm, ET fan, zengrifter, bigplayer, dog hand, chappy, the list goes on and on. And the point I'm making is that _every_ one of those people (and a lot more) all seem to be cordial and helpful.

Until the "group dynamics" erupt. Then it appears that there are clearly at least two large and active "factions" in the card counter/advantage play world. Perhaps more that I don't have a clue about. But two at least. I don't know the history of the dynamics between the two groups, and probably don't want to know. But my question is this: "what has happened in the AP community to create such a large rift (chasm actually)?" It seems that the dislike really runs deeply, even though the two factions actually have far more in common than they'd like to realize.

From the outside looking in, it appears that there is simply a tremendous dislike between people in the two factions. Can you, or will you shed any light on what led to this? IE I have seen BJ teams break up over questions about honesty or money. I've seen computer chess people break up over a clash of egos or wildly different opinions. I've seen academic departments divide into factions over the most major issues and over the most ridiculously trivial things.

My own perspective is that once a group exceeds some "critical mass" (to use a nuclear physics metaphor) the group splits into factions. And, quite often, as the factions grow, they re-split into sub-factions. Perhaps this says that a group of a certain size or bigger simply can't stay together, I don't know.

But since I don't know who did what to whom and why, and since I'd like to get along with all the APs that might offer good advice in the future, I find myself not wanting to join one faction for fear of losing access to the other group. As a result, I have little doubt that I get less out of the interactions than I could if I didn't worry that by talking to A, B will get pissed.

Comments? Explanations? Suggestions? Etc?

Note that I hardly want to start a "who is right who is wrong" war, I'd just like to find out what is at the root of the "great divide" so that I don't inadvertantly come down on the wrong side of it...

Of course, if you don't want to touch that with a 30 foot pole, I certainly understand. :)

Mathboy, I have been told you are intelligent and very bright; that you have earned a pot full of the casino's money over the last few years. I respect that. Congratulations.

I am surprised to see you make some of the comparisons you did.

1.) I was'nt comparing the civil rights movement to one guy's opinion of Don S; I was comparing the silence surrounding both and I stll think it's shameful.

2) I don't care about one guy's opinion; I care that one guy would try to say today that black is white after telling me in his writings over the last many years that, no, sorry, white is black (while he and I know it's not true) and all just to sully another's reputation. Opinions are one thing. Mean spirited attacks on people just because you think you can get away with it are another. Like I said, cowardice.

Also, your refering to 'one guy's opinion' has done wonders to clarify for ETFan that yes, Yoko, Radar O', Blackjack Historian, and AS are basically the same 'guy.' Clarity is a wonderful thing. Actually I don't recall AS actually posting anything deragatory towards DS under his handle at all.

> Believe me, you would rather hear silence than the opinions of a lot of people with whom you are going to disagree.

You confuse me with DS. Maybe he would rather hear the silence, I don't know. I'd prefer the truth and AS either didn't give it to me then or he isn't giving it to me now.

> Sometimes it is better to keep your opinions out of the public eye instead of heaping on the abuse.

Advice that AS, Yoko, and Radar O' probably should be given because let's be honest -all they are trying to do is change opinion and marginalize a man from history that is not deserving.

> Can't you keep this personal crap off at least one board?

You mean like AS did in November?

I would be grateful to keep it on the FC board. If your new found friends there will be honset with you they will tell you that fully 50% of my posts have disappeared. In fact the one we are discussing here was compiled from the same thoughts I have tried to post several times there in vain.

BTW, your post yesterday and the response from AS regarding some of the pitfalls of ST'ing was excellent. Thanks, I've archived it personally. I never said AS was not one of the brightest guys around, he obviously is. To state otherwise would be -shameful -and foolish.

It's just that now, I'm having trouble accepting what he prints at face value.

"It was also prominently posted here (the AS November treatise.)"

.. no, it was �initially� posted here. It is now �prominently� posted at AS's website as some sort of educational material.

"To the best of my knowledge, 99+% of the posts on every serious AP board are anonymous. Is "Sun Runner" your real name??"

.. it is around these parts. Serious posters don't change their name. You'll always know where I stand and who I am when you talk to me. Come on now ETFan. When that post was made in November you agreed with the 'alienated' response that surmised the poster was obviously an old hand at BJ and should have identified themselves. For the children that come and go here and elsewhere who devise new handles from the random neuron firings they are having that day it's fine. But for people who expect to be taken seriously, like yourself, it's not. Alienated was being nice. I call it cowardice not to stand behind that post.

"It was not, in fact, silent about that post. There is a tradition on the internet of honoring free speech, almost to the point of anarchy. People have a right to their opinion. An "outcry" would be plain silly."

.. the November post was silly and had it ended there, I would agree with you.

""AS (Yoko, Radar O�Reilly ... is there any real difference)""
"Um, yes? These are all different people?"

.. check with Mathboy if you feel that AS, Yoko, Radar O', and the BJ Historian are not speaking in concert with one another? They are, you know it, so why bust my balls over it?

"What about DS' recent comment about AS? It predates the AS McDowell article. It may have been intended as a joke, but I'm not sure -- and I don't care enough to ask. It doesn't matter."

.. you are comparing a DS comment to the AS 4,000 word, eight page essay that began the process of stripping DS of his rightful due? You compare one DS comment with AS laughing at DS for endorsing a book and finding excuses for everyone else that did the same?

"I don't think there's a reason in the world you couldn't post freely at AS' site, as long as you try not to slander anyone and show a little respect for the man who literally made DS' blackjack reputation."

.. slander and little respect? I have said loud and long that AS is in my opinion one of the best BJ authors I have read. The posts I leave here are not any different than what I leave there. My posts get busted in the FC where slander and disrespect is a pre-requisite. I can't post there. I did not chose to come here.

"Just ask either DS or AS to pick the top two blackjack authorities in the following list: Jerry Patterson, John Patrick, Don Schlesinger, Arnold Snyder. I think both would come up with the same names."

.. are you kidding me!! ETFan, what alien has taken over your body dude? After reading the AS paper and reading the posts at his site, you think for a minute he would pick DS off that list? Yoko, Radar O�Reilly, and the BJ Historian wouldn�t let him.

�Enough already.�

That is a statement TMan would say is mean spirited and condescending. Bravo! An excellent use of condescension. I approve.

... to every one of your points, doesn't mean I agree with any of them. I disagree with just about everything you've said, both in fact and in spirit.

Go ahead, keep posting. I said "enough already;" I meant enough already.

ETF

This kind of replies to stainless steel rat (read one of those books when I was 15) as well...

2) I don't care about one guy's opinion; I care that one guy would try to say today that black is white after telling me in his writings over the last many years that, no, sorry, white is black (while he and I know it's not true) and all just to sully another's reputation. Opinions are one thing. Mean spirited attacks on people just because you think you can get away with it are another. Like I said, cowardice.

This is a personal thing between AS and DS and Viktor. They may drag other people into the fray. But it has nothing to do with me or you (I think) or most people posting here. I may have my opinions on the whole matter, but I'm not going to give them. I wish they did not have disagreements, but they do.

Read bjforum.com to get one side of the story. Read ap.com to get the other side.

A similar thing goes for T-Man and Viktor and Norm. It has become personal even if it wasn't as personal before. It happened a few years ago. I don't read them any more, but if I never saw another thread on trackjack the world would be a better place. Everybody who cares has already formed their opinion.

Also, your refering to 'one guy's opinion' has done wonders to clarify for ETFan that yes, Yoko, Radar O', Blackjack Historian, and AS are basically the same 'guy.' Clarity is a wonderful thing. Actually I don't recall AS actually posting anything deragatory towards DS under his handle at all.

I've met AS and Radar. They are not the same person. They may communicate with each other, but they are not the same person. Don't think that is a big secret. I don't think Yoko is the same person, but really have no clue. Blackjack Historian may be AS in that they both write well. And are both well versed in BJ history. But then it really doesn't matter.

> Can't you keep this personal crap off at least one board?

You mean like AS did in November?

I'm not saying that if AS put it on this board in November that it was a commendable thing to do. I'm just asking that you don't do the same.

Math Boy

Next time you're in a casino and you have a bad night and run out of money, go to the credit office and tell them you're a fan of Don Schlesinger and that you want a $5K marker. If that doesn't work, go next door and tell them you're a Snyder fan. Get my point? NOTHING matters but winning at the table. Any book that I know of that isn't written by one of the known charlatans of gaming has more than enough useful information in it to offset the cost of the book. Reputations, opinions, none of that matters, the best card counter in the world is a little old Asian lady who brings a bucket full of nickels with her to the table, and your time would be better spent memorizing some soft DD indices than getting involved in a clash of egos between a few giants of blackjack writing. Now get out there and play!

Sunrunner, whatever leads you down this path is foolish...if not evil. As many others have pointed out, your attempt to uphold the honor of DS and AP.com betrays a highly visible flaw. You try to present events to promote your position without knowing the truth or giving full weight to all the evidence. I don't know why you insist on defending AP.com. Why do you think your highly inductive arguments are not immediately understood? In some cases, the community does share a consensus. The fact is, among blackjack professionals, DS is not considered to be so elite. This is indisputable at this time.

You apparently don't play. You have very little to offer and have become an insufferable bore with your intrusive opinions. We don't care who supercedes whom in the historical hierarchy. Personally, I don't even care what your opinion is. What I do care about is this....

1. What will get me the money? [Profitability.]
2. Who can be trusted to be honest and protect players? Who has authentic experience? [Character.]
3. Which information will be beneficial or destructive to my bankroll. [Utility.]

The rest of it is all a matter of personality and opinion. This is a very tough room. Your naivete is astounding considering the general intelligence of the audience you are addressing. Charlatans come and go, and every couple of months yet another passionate protege' wants his voice to be heard. There are some very smart cookies here that you are trying to impress. I suggest you resist the urge to take a leading role in this debate and instead just 'listen up'.

It is good that the AP.com site exists so as to siphon off the 'great minds' of the internet blackjack community where they can exist peaceably together in a theoretical world. It just so happens that the most honest businessmen, writers, and hard-working players find very little to recommend about your comrades. Maybe Ouchez can explain to you how this has come to be since you seem to be unable to interpret the deafening silence surrounding your crusade.

I agree that you should get out and play more frequently so you might better understand where our priorities lie.

All the best,
scobee

*Yawn*

Now go out and play, you'll feel a lot better.

> This is a personal thing between AS and DS and Viktor ..

That -it appears to be.

> But it has nothing to do with me or you (I think)

Correct again, it does not.

> I wish they did not have disagreements ..

Me too.

> Read bjforum.com to get one side of the story.
> Read ap.com to get the other side.

Oops. Now hold on and bear with me.

Read BJFOL and what do you hear? Don Schlesinger is a pretender, he never should have been given the due he has, and that all of Snyder's (although granted he has not spoken up himself) previous affirmations to the contrary were a lie and that, basically he's sorry he ever said those things.

That's not my opinion, that's what is being said. It is either true or it is'nt. I don't believe it is nor do I believe it is fair to say, and I'm saying so. It's a fraud on anyone who want's to study BJ.

Now read AP.com. Find a post that says anything at all like that regarding AS. Maybe it exists on Green Chip from Don, I don't know (I think it has been alleged.) If accepted, I plan to join GC (oh boy!) for the education only and I'll see for myself. But I don't think DS would make those kind of silly statements regarding AS. He may have used a fair amount of expletives in refering to AS (I know of only one, once) but that is different. Actually DS's restraint has been admirable. Every morning I log on I figure this to be the day he goes ballistic. :)

> A similar thing goes for T-Man and Viktor and Norm. It has become
> personal even if it wasn't as personal before.

It was personal before. VN and TMan had a business deal gone bad. I've had 'em. Maybe you've had 'em. But once they get settled, they are settled. It's done. TMan will tell you that it is not about that but that he feels the need to expose the 'fraud' of Trackjack. I personally believe it is still personal for TMan. The only reason somebody keeps a 'Big Red Book' collated and tabbed, is for some future use in what I can only imagine might be a class action law suit. Sounds pretty personal to me.

I ask you to use the search feature here, at AP.com, at the FC, at EJ's place, anywhere you choose. Go back, say, twelve months. Who initiates the posts that turn personal? TMan, Incognito, Scarygary, VN, Norm? Be honest, do the search, and let me know.

> .. if I never saw another thread on trackjack the world would be a better place.

Agreed.

> I've met AS and Radar .. I don't think Yoko is the same person ..

Lucky you. I'd find it a priviledge to meet AS, or DS, or you as well.

I never said they were the same, I said they speak in concert with one another. I believe what each says is at a minimum a loose but well orchestrated plan to publically humiliate Don Schlesinger. I could really not give a rat's ass for the others but for AS, I find it shameful.

Yoko is clearly not AS as Yoko is most likely of the female persuasion and AS clearly is not; as another poster there made sure we knew. How would she have known!? Hmmm. :) If I were guessing, and that's all it is, I guess Yoko to be AS's wife and/or girl friend. Only a guess. I have never met either. But if I am right, they are 'the same.'

BTW, if my wife/girl friend/or signifigant other was making claims, and by the making of them implied I agreed; she would either stop of I would make sure myself the record was set straight.

I have seen you jump on Schlesinger because you thought he was arrogant, self-righteous, or un-willing to admit fault. That's fine with me; you may be right (although I have heard him both admit fault and admit he does not know an answer.) But what is going on today at BJFOL is different; much different.

> Blackjack Historian may be AS in that they both write well. But then it really doesn't matter.

It matters to me. If it were any of the three you mentioned they should stand up and take responsibility for that post. I don't believe you or I either one should use a multiple alias to express your opinion publically in the BJ family -all the more they should not either.

> I'm not saying that if AS put it on this board in November that it was a commendable thing to do.

Exactly. But your not saying it was'nt either. You are in good company; nobody else is taking a position neither. Hard to actually take a stand these days is'nt it?

Good luck .. although I hear you are good at making your own.

> In some cases, the community does share a consensus. The fact is,
> among blackjack professionals, DS is not considered to be so elite. This is indisputable at this time.

Not so elite? Good grief. You don't read very well scobee, if so, you don't comprehend then. My thoughts on the BJHOF are in print and I accept they could be wrong. But it's not about who is elite or who isn't. Nobody deserves the historical re-write going on here.

Boring or not, scobee, I'll wear that subject out. I don't expect you to like it.

Arnold's historical re-write in November is not about being elite. It's shameful he somehow feels the need to put down Schlesinger in order to elevate himself.

> You apparently don't play ..

> .. you should get out and play more frequently ..

> Your naivete is astounding considering the general intelligence of the audience you are addressing ..

> Charlatans come and go, and every couple of months yet another passionate protege' wants his voice to be heard.

> There are some very smart cookies here that you are trying to impress.

> I suggest you resist the urge to take a leading role in this debate and instead just 'listen up'.

It's shameful you somehow feel the need to put down me in order to elevate yourself.

> What I do care about is this .. who has authentic experience? [Character.]

Authentic experience equates to charecter? Never has, never will; except for those that worship at that throne.

> You have very little to offer and have become an insufferable bore ..

Listen, let me know in advance if my application to Green Chip is going to be denied will ya'? If so, I'd just as soon save the effort.

Green chip is open to all who will pay the price of membership until which time they abuse the privilege or are discovered to be in the employ of the dark side. I remember several months we suggested to you that you join so you could benefit from better story telling and you refused. You could check with Mr. Rogers on this, but I think you have established an internet persona that more than qualifies you for green chip membership.

I am completely unaffiliated with the new BJF at this time. It seems that you are welcome to post anywhere on that site....but directed towards the fight club since you seem to be bent towards controversey. In all things, feel free to speak your mind. A mind is a terrible thing to waste...that is if you have one to begin with.

My friend Arnold has no need for me to defend him since his place is solid in the community. How anyone can inspire such loyalty across the board in a thirty year career of gambling is beyond me. When you have been around a bit longer you may find his credentials all the more impressive. The main complaint I have with you is you have no idea what the real story behind the real story is, yet you insist in attempting to be persuasive to no avail. Unless of course you are not who you present yourself to be. In that case, maybe you can get your membership comped... :-)

Listen, let me know in advance if my application to Green Chip is going to be denied will ya'? If so, I'd just as soon save the effort.

Sun Runner is welcome to join Green Chip. Link to order form below.

Note to Scobee 1 ..

> I am completely unaffiliated with the new BJF at this time.
> It seems that you are welcome to post anywhere on that site ...

At his old site you know full well he didn't like what I had to say and turned my log on off altogether. Either you (or TMan) even told me later that you argued against it but to no avail. Why would you assume otherwise now. I'm telling you, point blank, I won't/can't post where some posts get left up and some get taken down and those you try to converse with have more than one handle that changes as the posts wear on.

> The main complaint I have with you is you have no idea what the
> real story behind the real story is, yet you insist in attempting
> to be persuasive to no avail.

Again, you don't comprehend me very well.

Tell you what, and I know I'll hate myself for this later, but hey, it's Friday night ...

... let me be crystal clear.

Arnold Snyder is one of the greatest BJ authors I have read. I will purchase the new BIB3 and read it with great interest. I'd ask for an autographed copy, but, well, .....

I also think that Arnold Snyder's posting/allowing to be posted/helping to write/whatever in November was chicken sh*t for doing so and for not taking the responsibility for it. I think that after many years of publishing the work of Don Schlesinger and endorsing his books, now trying to distance yourself from that by having your wife or girl friend or next door neighbor suggest to us on your behalf that it was done only to promote books and sell periodocals is chicken sh*t. I think having to run down McDowell's book and all those that endorsed it just to get another crack at Schlesinger and stake out your team as the greatest ST'ing/Sequencing gang of all time (and ya'll very well may be) is chicken sh*t. And finally, I think many others think the same as I do (much to your protestations to the contrary) but are just to chicken sh*t to speak up.

Clear enough? For me it's not about who's most 'elite' or what the story behind the story is or ever was.

Your last put down to me equated charecter to playing ability. I'll hope you meant something else otherwise you will never comprehend what I write here.

Is there anyone left I have not pissed off this week? I guess you should speak up now and we can get it over real fast and easy like.

> Unless of course you are not who you present yourself to be.
> In that case, maybe you can get your membership comped... :-)

BTW, I think it also to be chicken sh*t for Snyder and O'Reilly to accuse me of being Viktor Nacht, then promising to prove it, then closing down their old board just so they would'nt have to. :)

My money order is in the mail AL -it will be under the name of JohnnyCash (God rest his soul) and the address will not be one you will want to use to contact me. Yes, I'm a little paranoid, don't take it personally. OK by me if you refuse the order, just please return the money. (You know, I need all the max bets I can gather up.)