Team vs single playing

Hi everyone,

So by my name you can see that I'm new to this. I have a ton of questions, but I'll only ask a few at a time. My first few are about team and single playing. It seems alot of you play by yourselves. I guess my first question is how do you not get caught by the Pit boss. As soon as he sees your bet changing all the time he gonna know. I'm gonna be playing 10-15 tables in AC. I'm also using the hi/lo method. From what I read its the best to begin with. So then on to team playing. Is it worth it as a beginner? The major problem is that I dont know anyone that counts. I'm trying to get friends I trust but they arent as motivated as I am. Plus we would be all beginners. I'm sure we would get busted. Also, before someone tells me to practice more,I plan on it. I dont plan on going for awhile. Any advice would be great.

Thanks

There are at least a couple of well-known ways to do this:

(1) pool your bankroll, but everyone plays separate games. You can bet as if you had the entire bankroll, which lets you bet bigger without increasing your RoR to some unacceptable level. This requires a _lot_ of trust since team members will still have losing sessions, and doubts will create trust issues.

(2) two play at the same table, one counting and betting small, calling in the big bettor (big player) when the count reaches some threshold value. The BP doesn't need to count although it would help somewhat. This is harder for the pit to pick up on if you keep playing sessions short. They just see some wild guy/gal walk up and bet big for a few hands and leave. Problem is that NMSE blocks this completely.

(2) also requires additional practice. Making sure you and the BP can communicate without being noticed. Making sure he picks up on your "leave the table, the count has tanked" if he can't count. Making sure you can pass the running count to him if he can count. Etc...

Good info thanks. Now this is I assume will be a real noobie question. In 6 or 8 decks shoes. What would be good counts? When I practice with 8 decks I see +7+8 in there.

Just try and read as much info as you can get regarding team play, think of if as your education. Books, forums, anything. There are great books out there so check them out. And im sure you know but dont forget practice makes perfect.

Any suggestions on any books? I'm also intrested in Ace tracking. Or whatever they call it.

Thanks neemo6

Noobie

at this point in your career. It sounds like you barely know how to play or what to expect in the casino. The pit is not as smart as you think. Many players raise or lower bets due to wins/losses/personal whims/etc. Ever watch asian's play Baccarat? The only way the pit "knows" that you're counting is by watching you raise and lower your bets multiple times in correlation with the true count of the shoe. Not many pitbosses, with their jobs, have the time to watch one player for the required 40 to 60 minutes it takes for a fairly certain confirmation of skills.

So , if it takes 40-60 minutes or repeated max bet opportunities for the pit (or eye usually) to make a fairly certain confirmation of your counting skills you can defeat them by simply playing 30-45 minutes per session (or until you get a hot shoe) and then just quit your session.

My past experience used the 1% advantage point, roughly. Which means a TC of roughly +3. There are some better shoe games around today with LS, S17, DA2, DAS, etc, and the +3 might be a bit conservative.

My solution would always be to plug the rules in, and let CVCX tell me how wonging at +2 or +3 or +4 would perform with respect to either score or hourly win rate...

That is the best place to start. Good training software (CVBJ) to get your skills honed, then good analysis/sim software (CVCX/CVData) to let you answer such questions with dead-on accuracy for any game you encounter...

because they know they r at a disadvantage. Just keep sessions short and don't play the same shift too often... forget cover in ac... Try 1-6 spread/avoiding - counts and play 2 hands if you can... or wong...

session very early in my AP "career". I was playing a shoe,
with a ploppy, and with a nosey/prying dealer. Ploppy was
complaining about being down alot. Dealer was "helping ploppy out",
and telling ploppy you need to press your bets when you're hot,
that's the only way to get back even. Then at the same time dealer
would look askance at me and say, "after that snapper how come you
lowered your bet? ...strange... comeon I want to know why?"
I had good stories as to "why", and that shop ended up giving me
a many dozens of hrs net gain before backing me off. But the
supposedly savvy dealer's comments and attitude make it clear that
ploppies definitely are even expected to jump their bets -- the
devil is only in the details.

hi noobie-
get ALOT of experience playing before you even seriously consider starting a team. best of luck-
Prog

With a team, counting is the least of the issues you have to handle. That ought to be automatic and second-nature before you give even a thought to getting involved in others with the level of trust required to pull this off...