Surrender or hit A,5 against dealer 10?

If a casino offers surrender, 16 v 10 should be surrendered right? But what if that 16 is comprised of A,5? Do you follow the Soft hand rule of hit, or the surrender rule? My logic tells me surrender, but then again, my logic has gotten me in trouble in the past :_)

Incidentally I have seen varying numbers in percent on the advantage of surrender. In Foxwoods, in a 8 deck game, DAS, double any card, S17, what does surrender offer in percent? Thanks.

You aren't ever going to bust hitting an A5, why wouldn't you hit and try for a better hand?

john getley,

Although JohnDoe gave the correct advice, hit A-5 vs. 10 instead of late surrendering, his reasoning was faulty. For example, using his reasoning, "You aren't ever going to bust hitting an A5, why wouldn't you hit and try for a better hand?", you would also conclude that, dealt 2,3 vs. A in an early surrender game, you should hit (since you can't bust it by hitting), but in fact you should early surrender it (but NOT late surrender it!).

The real reason why you LS 10,6 vs. 10 but not A,5 vs. 10 is because of the EV's of these two hands. For an 8D game, 10,6 vs. 10 has the following basic strategy EV's (from Don Schlesinger's indispensible BJA3, Table A75, page 468): -0.540827 (Stand), -0.535975 (Hit), and -1.071950 (Double); while A,5 vs. 10 has these EV's: -0.540033 (Stand), -0.209467 (Hit), and -0.516723 (Double). Of course, LS has an EV of exactly -0.5. Thus, with 10,6 vs. 10, the largest (least negative) of the four EV's is -0.5, so basic strategy tells you to surrender 10,6 vs. 10. On the other hand, the largest of the four EV's for A,5 vs. 10 is -0.209467, so basic strategy tells you to hit A,5 vs. 10.

To answer your second question, for an 8D, S17, DAS game, Don's book (See? I told you it was indispensible!) tells us (on pages 492-3) that LS adds 0.076% to the player's B.S. edge. However, as Don points out on page 187, LS is MUCH more valuable to a bet-spreading card counter than to a flat-betting B.S. player: for example, for a 6D game the LS B.S. value is 0.073%, but for a CC playing all and spreading 1:12, LS is worth 0.20%.

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

I now remember all those 2,3 hands vs. Ace that I didn't early surrender. Look out casinos, I have a new weapon in my arsenal. I'm sure that move would not draw any attention from the pit. Seriously though, that's very interesting. Never knew it.

As Dog Hand pointed out, 5vAce should only be abandoned in case of Early Surrender (it's actually a coin toss!) but never with Late Surrender that you probably have to deal with most of the time.

Francis Salmon

Are there still casinos that offer this? If so, where?