Questions for the seriously skilled & expirenced winning players!!!

This is just my opinion, it�s for �JackBlack� or anyone it might help.

There are some people who want the whole pie for themselves, not even a crumb for anyone else. Others want to help you any way they can. As for me, I can offer you this�

�I am wondering... is blackjack a viable game to get involved with given current casino conditions (6:5, heat/barrings, penetration, other rules).�

Yes, but it will take time and money. Never play 6:5, bad rules/pen, or MindPlay tables. There�s no heat/barrings at the red level because there�s no REAL money at the red level, sorry.

�Are there still enough beatable games available to make the time and effort worth while?�

Yes, not as good as it was, but not as bad as it will be in the future. The best thing about Vegas is the number of places to play. There are better games in the Midwest, but overplaying can be a problem, unlike when I�m in Vegas.

�I will be living in the LV area and want to know... is Bj the way to go?�

I would say yes, but not full time until you are much better and have more money. As far as �the way�, I would say that if you are going to live in Vegas you should explore every way that gives you an �Advantage� over the casino. But finding this site shows you are starting out on the right foot. Now become a Green Chip member so you can skip all the �Crappy� posts.

�I will have a starting bank of $5000 which I had planned on a big bet of $40 and a spread of $5 - $40 (1-8) which will give me a very slim risk of ruin based on my studies thus far(is this a good start so far... suggestions?).�

Sorry, but that will just get your feet wet for the first year while you hone your skills. As some have said, you can build this or add to this with other funds, but you will need more.

�What kind of games should I focus on (1 - 8 deck, penetration, ect.)?�

Single deck, double deck, and 6 deck ~ pen at 1.75 or less (I was there and found this, you should look around, even found 1.25) as for the ect� you�ll have to e-mail those in the know and for that you need to get off the free pages (where e-mail addresses can get spam�ed)

�I have read professional blackjack, million dollar blackjack, blackjack as a business, blackjack for blood... I have found these books to be a good start in studying counting systems and other good information in an effort to find the one I will be most comfortable with using... is there any more recommended reading?�

I would add to your list �Comp City� because anything free add�s to the bottom line. As I have stated to another poster ~ At the top of this page it says "Home", go to that main page and on the left side it will say "BJ School" follow that link to 19 free Lessons. This is the 'real deal'! Start working on the lessons and see if counting�s for you. It will take some time and the skills you learn will help with all count systems. Then when you need a break you can search the past posts and read what members like "bigplayer", "Bootlegger", "DD'", and "MathProf" have to say.

�Any other things I should be thinking about or any other pointers that any of the successful players on this site can offer? Should I even be pursuing this game, given this start, at this point in time? Thank you for any valuable input!�

You need to decide what YOUR GOAL is, what you are looking to get out of this. Some have stated that you are going to do this full time, for a living. Some think you will be playing red chips forever. There�s lots of advice, but not all of it will take you to where you want to go. I started with $6000 and played red to hone my skill while building the bankroll. Then I switched to Green Play so I could make more an hour. At that time I added money to my bankroll because I had faith in my game. I feel that this gets me the comps, free cash coupons, and hourly rate of a part time job. Note: I could not live on this money full time. You have to build your game, enjoy playing, and put in the hours. Again, if you are going to be working in Vegas, then join Green Chip and take it to the next level�

Seeing Doubles

So many want to argue with me when it is obvious that they are either misinformed or don't mind misleading people. I wish the games were still good enough to build up a playing stake as I did many years ago. I have played for decades and there is no way I could build up from red chip to the black chip level today. Even at black chip level play today, it would not be easy for me to win the $150,000 that one of the dreamers claims (probably from his outpost in the Yukon or whevever). The surveillance and FRS are a big obstacle when you're among the biggest players in the casino. For that comedian to tell you you could do it starting from red chips is very sad. What is even worse are his fellow dreamers who want to prop up their buddy's delusions. These folks are very upset with me calling me a "Troll" and "Crappy", etc. My only intent was to provide realistic facts to let you know what is really going on here. There are very bad conditions in low limit, massive scrutiny in higher limit, and not enough places with playable games. Sorry, but that is the truth. When I play it is as I described in an earlier post.

You can believe what you wish but some will only learn the hard way. Feel free to ignore reality and join the dreamers. Best of luck to you. I hope you make it!

I don't want to enter the dispute over conditions in Vegas but I think that a $40 max bet will in no case allow you to get off the ground whatever the conditions are.Your theoretical hourly win rate would only be single digit and is likely to be eaten up by occasional mistakes,tips or incorrect dealer settlements.
If you really want to take off you have to raise your max bet to at least $100.So you've got two choices.Either you save more money and wait until you have 10k or you give it a shot right now thus overbetting your bankroll.A lucky punch might bring you the break through but there is some danger you will lose your bankroll.

Francis Salmon

After reading a number of posts in this thread, I have some more thoughts and a revision of my original advice. Big Player suggested playing 6-deckers and 2-deckers, while I suggested playing 1- and 2-deckers. After giving that some thought, I can see where he is coming from. Low level (red chip) single-deck games are nearly always crowded, to the point where they simply aren't worth playing, especially with the rule of six being prevalent in most casinos now.

Francis Salmon suggested raising your top bet to $100. This would significantly increase risk, but if JackBlack has other employment, one might assume his bankroll is replenishable, which actually makes it something other than $5K. In the event JackBlack chooses that option, then I think single-deck games come back into play. Uncrowded $25 tables can still be found and are worth playing, using a hit-and-run style of play. Raising bet levels also increases comps and the possibility of cash coupons, all of which add value to your play and stretch your bankroll. I think Francis' advice is well-taken.

Chappy decried the idea that a player could increase his bankroll to $150K after five years of play, starting at small red-chip levels. If one confined himself strictly to playing in Las Vegas, Chappy may be correct. However, I'm betting that a player who took the game seriously enough to attempt that goal would find himself looking for other venues after getting some experience under his belt. Nevada and Southern California offer a number of non-Las Vegas playing opportunities within reasonable driving distance. If a player is playing at levels high enough to generate that final $80K of income in a year's time, there are other venues within the U.S. worth traveling to. Again, the experience and knowledge gained by such a player would lead him to broader horizons.

Then there is the wider world of advantage play. Once more, the gain in experience and the learning curve could very well lead JackBlack to other gaming options that have an advantage for the player.

So, Jack, go for it, but don't quit your day job.

something right. I sense Mathprof is Flaming red in the face. That personal attack on you proves it. You have made him snap by simply speaking what MAY be the truth.

Mathprof, you realy should apologize. It is below you to resort to these types of gutter tactics.

Ignacio

Math Prof, (based on his apparent unfamiliarity with what goes on in Las Vegas) is probably chiming in from his outpost in the Yukon with his band of delusional followers. They feel its just fine to insult me. All I did was respond to his current misleading and inaccurate ramblings. Are we here to inform or mislead? He should apologize.

Incidentally I now refer to him as Yukon Jack (YJ).

Thanks, Ignacio!

you is to ignore what I said. Bring your $5,000 bankroll and move to Las Vegas. Follow the words of the dreamers. Yukon Jack is always available for all kinds of comments. I only spoke up to inform and am not interested in trying to persuade anyone. Makes no difference to me what you do. Some people will only learn the hardest way possible so go ahead and find out for yourself.

I'm glad I didn't listen to the naysayers and just tried it for myself. My advice is listen and learn from the sensible people. Eventually you will be able to tell which posts to read by the subject and who responds to them. Join GC. Ask questions and learn from the ones before you. Establish email contacts. Be discreet. This website doesn't exists because counting isn't viable anymore.

Many of the posters here, like Yukon Jack and the droolers, refuse to acknowledge present day reality. They appear more interested in living in the past. Unlike all these folks (whom you call "sensible people"), I live here and have for decades. They speak out of wishful thinking, not reality. Big time, high stakes 21 is over. Small stakes are still fine. If you think otherwise, feel free to move here and try to make the $150,000 that Yukon Jack wants to tell people is so easy.

"Many of the posters here, like Yukon Jack and the droolers, refuse to acknowledge present day reality."

Your repeated use of nothing but namecalling is very indicative that you have no real grounds to stand on and have to resort to such tactics.

"Unlike all these folks (whom you call "sensible people"), I live here and have for decades."

So what. Thre are probably hundreds of thousands of people who live in Vegas who could not earn their living playing blackjack, just because you fit in with that group doesn't mean it can't be done.

" If you think otherwise, feel free to move here and try to make the $150,000 that Yukon Jack wants to tell people is so easy."

You are mischaracterizing his words. He never said it was easy. He said it could be done. Big difference.

Just because YOU are incapable of doing something doesn't mean it cannot be done.

I have played here for years successfully at the highest limits. I know of what I speak. As for my reference to "Yukon Jack" (I assume his lack of knowledge of current reality is because he must be living in the Yukon). It was only after he and his band of droolers referred to me as a "Troll" and "crappy" etc. that I responded with an accurate nickname. I did not hear you complain when the insults were directed at me. Where were you? This site must provide accurate info or it will be of no value to anyone. I tried to do that.

Then you complain when I wrote: " If you think otherwise, feel free to move here and try to make the $150,000 that Yukon Jack wants to tell people is so easy."

All I can say is dream on. I speak to inform those who need accurate information, not propaganda. It is no longer reasonable to think you would last long enough to make large sums of money. You can only get away with small play today for any sustained period. You can choose to become one of the dreamers but those of us who have played here for the last 30 years know quite a bit more than you guys back in Kentucky. Keep on dreamin, but don't mislead people.

For helping to set the record straight. In referring to my earlier post you wrote:

You are mischaracterizing his words. He never said it was easy. He said it could be done. Big difference.

That is correct. What I actually wrote was:

With a lot of work (and it WILL be a lot of work) you can double you bankroll each year �on average

I don�t think that saying something is a �a lot of work� is the same as saying that is easy!

Now this is comical. Yukon Jack now chimes in with PARTIAL information after he says he will set the record straight. You deliberately left out what you also stated which was:

"But I do think you can take 150K out of LV before that becomes the major issue. "

My question is, "On what planet are you living?" Not in today's game you won't. If you play high enough to win that amount you will be ejected quite quickly. I know as I play in those games when I can get away with it. I have been thrown out more than 100 times despite wearing disguises. If you want to build it up over many years as you also suggest, it will never happen as the conditions in the lower games are terrible and you will become known over so many years. Your words are nonsense. I am in the casinos regulary and almost never see a player in the higher games who can play as they've been ejected.

The red chip players must play at the more crowded tables and will never get to 150K (25 HPH X $20 ave bet X .01 advantage =$5 an hour!). You should get up to $150,000 in no time at that rate!! Even at the green chip level, your rate will be quite low and then you begin to get attention and get thrown out in some places.

I play, when I can, at the black chip level or higher and cause chaos when I sit down. Immediately several bosses pick up the phone and people are scurrying around all over. That is the reality when they see that you won the last time or two that you played. But you wouldn't now anything about that. You just want people to actually beleive that you know what you are talking about.

It is shameful that for the sake of your ego you are willing to mislead people and get their hopes up with such unrealistic nonsense. I'm sure I will soon hear from your band of the equally delusional who want to further this mythology, none of whom could win that in today's game.

At least you didn't insult me this time. Don't lose your day job.

You are proving my point. Thanks.

"You can only get away with small play today for any sustained period. You can choose to become one of the dreamers but those of us who have played here for the last 30 years know quite a bit more than you guys back in Kentucky."

You keep saying that you have played for the last 30 years and know quite a bit more than everyone else, yet you keep saying it cannot be done. Well it is simple logic, people are doing it right now, I know this for a fact. If you think it cannot be done, then maybe you don't know more than everyone else.

It is being done right now. I know of at least two people doing it full time (it is basically their only source of income), granted they travel alot, but they do play quite a bit in Vegas.

Personally, I think it is a crappy way to make a living. I tried it for three months and although I was somewhat successful at it (but way below expectation), you couldn't pay me to try and make my living that way. The hours are long, variance is rough (nothing like working hard for 12 hours and have nothing to show for it other than empty pockets). Plus the lifestyle can be a big distraction. I worked harder (with longer hours) those three months than I have at any 'real' job I have ever had. It is really hard and I bet you most don't make it

You say something is impossible, all it takes to prove you wrong is one person accomplishing the feat. That is simple logic. There are many more than just one.

Just because you can't, doesn't mean it cannot be done.

You need to have a bigger plan. I feel that your BlackJack play should be spread around more than just one town. For if you were to spend say 30 years kicking around the dirt of Vegas, there is a chance of you getting very burned out, bitter, and insulting to others. You will get to be known by every casino in town and as soon as you walk in several bosses pick up the phones and people will be scurrying around all over. That�s not what you want! Nobody can make money that way, it would be a fools dream.

Your best bet would be to talk to others about money making cover plays that nobody in their right mind would talk about on these pages. The free pages are like the gossip rags of the internet, you can learn a few things but you have to dig through a lot of name calling and mud slinging to find it. As stated before, read all the posts and search out the truth. I find that the best advice comes from those that spend more of their words giving advice and less words putting down others...

Good cards to all, Seeing Doubles

Other people address topics without the insults and name-calling. You sound like my son as a teenager, before he grew out of it.

FWIW, you don't sound very convincing. I doubt the substance of your self-announced credentials. MathProf is what he says. He does have "a day job", a very important one. Bigplayer is just that, full-time, without your preening displays of self-importance.

Just what are you?