Private game

I have access to a private game that may be very playable but, I would like other opinions

1)Two decks
2)D10, D11 only
3) resplit aces
4) no DAS
5) hit soft 17
6) 80-90% penetration depending on the number of players; there is no cut card, the dealer's instruction from the house is to deal until you don't have enough cards to finish a round

I have visited the club a couple of times and watched about 2 hours of play. I am assuming the game is square otherwise, there is no point even considering this. Many of the bettors have wild bet spreads. $5 - $250 looked common and did not seem to draw heat from the supervisors but, many of the players were well known to the club.

I am able to play because an old school friend, who mixes with this somewhat gamey crowd, is vouching for me.

All thoughts would be appreciated. Don't hold back on your criticisms.

Do many people on this board play with script?

First of all, I'd want to be there when the cards are opened, spread and shuffled.

Let me start out by making a few wild assumptions�

IF the game is honest, and IF they let �the new guy� wildly spread his bets, and IF you happen to win a lot of money, and IF this �gamey crowd� lets you walk off with their money, do you think they will have a good laugh when they find out that you are a card counter? What will happen to your friend who vouched for you?

Those are the questions that you need to ask yourself.

-Sonny-

You don't know if they're cheating or not. Sonny makes some good points too from a health standpoint. It's not worth the risks IMO.

Many years ago, before Resorts ofpened in AC, I knew about a private game in the Bronx. Knowing whose game it was, even with an invite, I have always believed not playing was a good decision. Perhaps the best decision I ever made.

An old story, but descriptive and enlightening.

Regards,
drumz1

After further research on my own, the expected value or SCORE on this game is about 178, 60% higher than the best possible SD game available in CBJN and 900% better than the typical game available at any licensed joint in the world.

It seems none of the respondants see any advantage opportunity given your concerns about fairness of the game, health, or illegality.

From this, I deduce that this club rarely sees any advantage play, at least from players on this board who are likely amongst the best APs, and thus in a contrarian way, must be an excellent opportunity. I am not concerned about fairness, health, or illegality. The best games ever run by any casino in America were run by organized crime during the Golden Age of blackjack during the 50's and 60's.

If you never see another post from me again, you will know the grim ending that befell me. On the other hand, I am unlikely to report of my great success, for obvious reasons of longevity.

Feel free to post further but, as you can see, my decision has been made.

Many thanks to all who responded.

your mind was made up when you made that initial post and you just wanted validation.

Anyway, I wish you luck...and good cards. Please post your experience upon return.

JB

Sometimes I think, will they Hurt(even KILL) you if they find out you are counting cards at underground casino.

It seems none of the respondants see any advantage opportunity given your concerns about fairness of the game, health, or illegality.

You should bear in mind most of the respondents are good people who wouldn't get involved on any level with organized crime.

That said, I think your assessment is correct. There are AP's who have made a lot of money in underground games, in some cases, seven figures. Mostly, they do get away with it. I know of a couple of guys who managed to hustle 2 for 1 BJ deals in a dozen or so joints over a couple of years and retired with their winnings.

Even the mob understands you have to let people win occassionally in order to have a gambling business.

I am not aware of any verifiable account of AP's who have been killed by the mob-though that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. There have been attempted assassinations and non-fatal assaults.

It goes without saying you also need to be fully conversant with the arsenal of cheating techniques in order to know when to walk away. The best game in the world is not worth anything if you are being cheated. Also understand that a good cheat simply can't be detected no matter how skilled the player.

Unless you like living on the "edge" why would you even consider it?

Players here have been "around the block" and a general consensus is to forego this, yet you insist on doing it, anyway.

There are many good, legit games available. You may have to travel to get to them but they are there. There are many other legit advantage plays, as well, beside blackjack...seek them out!

I wish you well and look forward to hearing your results.

Regards,
PM

I'm sure that someone posing the question on the free page of bj21 is more than adequately prepared here. Aren't you? IMHO, a much better response from someone who tries to present the image that you do, might have been along the lines of "I might play this game, but I would not recommend it to someone else." Or "Kids, I'm a professional, do not try this at home."

I'm not consciously aware of presenting any image. The only image I would like to present is that of a gambler single-mindedly focused on getting the money.

Chelsea Square has made a decision to play. I endorsed that decision. CS is aware he could end up in a ditch but wants to play anyway because the game is so good. Given his lack of risk-aversion, his decision is the correct one.
This is a different context from a random post where I would write "Hey Kids, underground games are cool!". They are potentially dangerous, as is obvious, and has been pointed out ad infinitum in this thread already.

There are two additional points here 1) Gambling in "legal" casinos is not exactly safe either, and arguably not the most brilliant lifestyle choice also. 2) Many of the serious players here have exchanged money with criminal joints-maybe online, or in Eastern Europe or asia, if not actually illegal and underground.

See you in about a month with you know who.

Regards,
WC

Was cheated out of $50K so fast, the hookers they threw at him didn't have anything left to steal.

Obviously your friend would have been better off with the legal and scrupulously ethical hookers in Las Vegas. Obviously they would never pull a stunt like that.

It is unlikely that you will be killed or even beaten. However, there is a good possiblity that you will be cheated. I have known of pro players who shifted from legal games in brick-and-mortar casinos to illegal games and gotten their clocks cleaned in short order. Another possiblity is that you will be robbed once you leave the game if you are a winner. This will not be a coincidence.

You have made a decision to play the game anyway. Just know that there are four possible outcomes if you discount physical harm. You could win and walk away with money. You could legitimately lose. You could be cheated out of your money. You could be robbed. Considering those outcomes, what looks like an advantage play may not be one.

You guys buying? Got more comps than me...remember, I play reds. :)

Regards,
PM

If the joint is run by an independent operator who does nothing illegal outside gambling, your odds are better than if you play in a joint run by a known criminal syndicate.
Some bookmakers and casino owners end up underground almost by accident. They play a little cards with friends, start banking the game, then find they need a space...those people aren't usually criminal in the unpleasant sense of the word. Of course, they aren't neccessarily above cheating you-but they are generally no more likely to do you physical harm than any one else.

If it is organized crime syndicate banking the game, then it is a different matter.

I will say this: do not play at any casino which has connections to Romanian or Ukranian mafia. They are not really criminals-they are sadists who fund their sadism habit via crime.