No Blackjack and Trespass.

It's all about active versus passive involvement. In DM's case, he is actively trying to pry the shoe open multiple times with the cut card in an attempt to find a spot to place it in proximity of an Ace or 10 to get it dealt to a desired location. Legal hole carders are passive...they sit and watch for exposed cards.

In DM's case, he is actively trying to pry the shoe open multiple times with the cut card in an attempt to find a spot to place it in proximity of an Ace or 10 to get it dealt to a desired location. Legal hole carders are passive...they sit and watch for exposed cards.

The casino does require you to cut the deck, and in fact this is usually a legal requirement. So if what Morse did wasn't passive, then the state and the casino could hardly complain having required him to not be so.
I don't recall any specific law which requires that the player cut in a certain way. Basically they said "we don't like the way you cut". Gamblers are expected to ignore the sloppiness of casino procedures or face arbitary legal sanction.

I think Morse had a legal hatchet job done on him.

First of all, Morse wasn't just banned, he was convicted in court of a felony.

Second of all, where do you get the idea Grosjean isn't banned?? He's certainly banned at the casino that had him thrown in jail. Grosjean's case came out of Nevada, where they can ban anyone for any reason.

DM's cutting technique is illegal becaue the court agreed with the casino that it's illegal. You're not going to change the law by logic, or your own personal sense of right and wrong. NOTHING about the law in this country makes a dimes worth of sense anyway. And it never will -- mot in our lifetimes.

It just happens I've never spent a minute in jail. You want to know why? Same reason as most people -- LUCK. End of story.

ETF

At least, not in LV. You can refuse to cut the deck, and the dealer will then offer the cut to someone else at the table. If all refuse, he will call the PC, who will then cut the deck. I've seen this happen many times on tables that I back counted. Of course, I've never refused to cut the deck, not that I can shuffle track or ace steer, just do it as a matter of principle. I don't want the casino to cut it.

Neko

"Should I assume that's what BobL said? There is not much to be gained arguing the law with him."

No, it was more to the point. My main point doesn't rest on any one case. Casinos make law. Period. There is no serious debate about that.

"Is 'stutter-cutting' a proper term? I don't recall hearing that term before but it's been a while. I thought the term was 'twisting.'"

I've heard both terms.

"Carrying on however, to the best of my knowledge it was the NJ CCC that put an end to whatever DM was doing .. not the casino."

You mean you think if the casino had raised no objection, the CCC would still have been in there punting? I'm struggling to see your point, I really am.

The court put an end to DM's advantage play -- based on law the casino invented, and to which the CCC acquiesced. The courts would agree that card counting is illegal too, except they have a little problem with the freedom of thought issue -- which is considered a more fundamental right than freedom of speech. But they strike down unconstitutional law from the legislature as well.

"If you read some of the DM transcripts it is clear he just wasn't cutting in to a 'loose shoe.' I don't see it any different as spooking the hole card, which is illegal... "

How nice for you that you're so well adapted to living under tyranny.

JMO,

ETF

I seem to recall it is mandatory there, though I'm no expert.

You are right about LV of course, but I'm not sure it makes all that much difference to the general principle involved here: they offer you the cut-card. Then they complain if you cut with the cut-card in a way they don't like....just seems rather unfair to me.

First of all, Morse wasn't just banned, he was convicted in court of a felony.

I did not know that he's convicted by a NJ Court. NJ CCC did not mention that conviction in DM's file when I read DM's case in this link: http://www.njdge.org/exclusion/morse_d.htm

Hmmm... I wonder why NJCCC fails to mention DM's court conviction. However, it did mention these pending charges against him: On January 13, 1992 and August 13, 1994, Morse was observed employing the same illegal tactic at the Casino Magic Casino in Bayport, St. Louis, Mississippi. Charges were pending against Morse in Mississippi for cheating at blackjack, a felony offense.

Second of all, where do you get the idea Grosjean isn't banned?? He's certainly banned at the casino that had him thrown in jail. Grosjean's case came out of Nevada, where they can ban anyone for any reason.

My bad. All APs in this community know that JG was jailed by LVPD and banned by LV casinos. In my previous question, I should specifically state that NJ CCC bans DM, but not JG as per this link: http://www.njdge.org/exclusion/fullexcl1.pdf

By the way, during a national TV interview, JG mentioned that he's a New Jerseyan from Catham. With that info I assume that JG holecards in AC casinos too. Thus I link DM & JG together in my previous question.

Anyway it will be nice and appreciated if a link of DM's court case be provided so that I can catch up on DM's latest news. Thanks in advance.

An act does not become illegal simply because an owner of private property prefers it so. Not yet, anyway.

Thanks for the well made point, Adhoc.

for Christopher -

Being new here, you are getting whipped over verbiage.

To the best of my knowledge, DM was officially blacklisted .. ultimately .. by the state of NJ. Call it what you want, if he sets foot in a NJ casino he's looking at serious jail time. And I'll reiterate my original statement .. it's because he was cheating.

JG has no doubt been 'banned' from more than one casino, but only by the casino and that under the law granted to them by the state they operate in. Generally those casino's that have banned him did so using the state's innkeeper trespass laws. If he sets foot in those casinos he is trespassing and subject to arrest. Not even close to the same penalty as what DM would be looking at. Interestingly enough, NJ does not have an innkeepers law that would allow a NJ casino to ban JG. A NJ casino can make life miserable for JG while on he is on their premises but they can't legally keep him from playing in NJ. I suppose if the NJ casinos actually had the ability to create law, JG would be gone just like DM.

And I am also not aware that DM was convicted of a felony in NJ or anywhere else. I'd like to see a cite on that if available.

for ETF -

No I don't like living under tyranny, but DM kept rolling that dice and practically dared the state of NJ to call his bluff. They did and he's paying the price. He was a cheat that got caught. And believe it or not I could actually have some real respect and admiration for the guy if he had had the sense to ply his trade a little more judiciously.

And further, I've never spent a day of my life in jail either, and I don't attribute it to luck.