What's the deal with the ID cards the pit bosses keep pushing? Does it make it that much easier for them to ban card counters?
Trufaux
What's the deal with the ID cards the pit bosses keep pushing? Does it make it that much easier for them to ban card counters?
Trufaux
the pit is really just trying to do you a favor by making sure that you get all the comps you are entitiled to. Without a players card they can't give you anything. With higher rollers there is pressure for them to know who they're up against and also pressure from their marketing department to know who the player is so that they can be invited back to lose more money later.
For low rollers the casino won't care one way or the other. At the better casinos you won't even get rated unless you maintain a $25 avg as a minimum anyway.
I agree with Bigplayer but should add that while rating you they also will note how much you put into the game and what you left with. If continue to return and they see you are winning much more often than you should (their opinion) they will watch you closer. If you are betting red in most big places, the pit just ignores you.
The Players Club Card. Is this the �mark of the beast� that the bible predicts? Read on.
In the beginning the casino realized the power of �Branding.� It seems that by offering customers small cash returns or casino monogrammed t-shirts or ball caps for their loyalty, the casinos overall handle and drop increased. In fact the casino management was amazed with the personal information people were willing to exchange for such cheap items made by slave labor in Taiwan. Name, age, date of birth, social security number, address, favorite colors, anniversary dates, favorite foods, favorite professional sports teams, banking institution, hobbies, etc. A wealth of information for the cost of a ball cap! What a deal.
This would be fine and dandy if the information was for �that� casinos use only. I�m not comfortable telling what �has� been done with such personal information but I will tell you what could be done with this �Key� to your identity.
Such information will fetch big bucks from the marketing vultures all over the world. This info is sold, traded, and separated and housed in numerous databases by the millions of users on an hourly basis. Companies like J.D. Powers and others use such information to sell such surveyed and census type information to fortune 500 companies, the S & P and the Dow Jones industries. Companies like Kodak, Ford, Proctor & Gamble, etc live for such info. It helps them with their future forecasts on stock performance, the introduction of new products, customer mailing lists, and survey and product appreciation samples and mean. For example, it takes out most of the guess work when they see that 90% of all women prefer the color pink over green. This will aid the companies in their overall product marketing and packaging. You won�t find �Ladies Comfort-Flex� pantyhose in a stealth black package with faux chrome nut and bolt enclosures. On the same note you�re not going to find the new �Al Rogers Uzi� .50 caliber sub-machine gun and grenade launcher in a �New Lite-Powder Blue or Passion Pink� color (ammo not included).
The casinos, which are oblivious to the evil thought of seeking to profit off of their clientele, would never stoop to such low and underhanded tactics such as selling out their customer base list for the sake of making a profit. No way! You have nothing to worry about. As Roosevelt once said �You have nothing to fear but casinos, players club cards, armed security guards that like to beat up card counters, taxes, and public humiliation when you�re backed off in front of family and friends.� At least that�s what I think he said. Roosevelt was my neighbor that used to drink too much and then catch and snare a large group of stray dogs from the neighborhood and force them to play poker at his kitchen table. He�s a painter now. Maybe you�ve seen some of his velvet paintings?
By inputting the number they have assigned a player (example # 666) they have a ton of useable information on you. After a few winning streaks, the computer may spit your number out and advise the casino that your play is not essential to the casinos long term goal. The trap has now been set. They will now lie and wait for your return or what�s worse is that their new trend is to send you a registered letter advising you that you are not permitted or welcomed to play or even enter their casino. By signing the receipt for the registered mail you have entered into a binding and enforceable contract with said casino.
Casino shift managers often trade player�s personal information (off the record, of course) on a daily basis with other casinos. They can tap into Central Credit and see that you applied for credit at the �Dupes� and the �Loser Slot� casino last night and that you won $3000. They would then call their connection at those properties and ask them for the skinny/low down on you. Their computers may tell them that your skill and ability is rated as GOOD and you only play blackjack. Furthermore their surveillance department has labeled you as a theoretical win threat.
Okay, by now you�re saying F@*K You Cellini, get to the heart of the matter you jerky ass, stupid bastard fool. All I can say to that is �Relax Mom. I�m getting to it right now�.
We all know why the player card system was invented and what its true intentions were in its infancy but now it�s used as the bell weather indicator for the shift manager to gauge the shifts win by the minute or the hour. Herein lies the danger; at the stroke of one keyboard key, the General Manager, Casino Games Manager, Shift Manager, Pit Manager, or the Surveillance Manager can see where the money is coming from or where it went. The system shows each and every player, what their average bet is, where that bet was made, how long they played, what games they played, what comps were accrued, what speed they played at (effects the comp rate of return), the name of the pit boss that watched the action, the exact time of your play, your past history including wins and losses, what room you�re staying in, what your level of ability is (good, average, or bad), your plays theoretical probability or your worth to the casino, comps used based on value and the name of the shops or restaurants that you frequented and the times you used them.
There is even more information collected and used against you but I think you get the picture so let�s move on to the next area of business.
We know they can track a rated player like a pack of Georgia State Police hound dogs but what about the players that refused to be rated? Here�s where it gets ugly. Those that don�t have the stomach to handle the truth should stop reading this and quickly turn on the television and tune to the CNN news channel or the Cartoon network (they�re about the same).
If you refuse to be rated, you are still rated under a �Refused Name� account set up for those that don�t want to be rated. This allows the �powers to be� to see how much money �the players that didn�t want the casino to know who they were� are winning, what game they�re playing, how long they�ve been playing, how much their average wager is/was, what hours they played, they�re basic description. Those that think they�re getting away with something should think twice. When a shift manager sees chips, the win/lose status, and sees that �refused name� is winning $5000 and most of it was won on BJ-69, this warns the shift manager and sends up a red flare. Now he researches the times that this �refused player� played. The player rating system shows that he only played between 2AM and 2:30AM with an average bet of $50. Now, a �dog poop eating grin� adorns the face of the shift manager as he or she realizes that their shift has been had.
Can you say Vendetta? How about Run like Hell? Hell hath no fury as a shift manager scorned.
Now the shift manager has to do some work. Don�t feel sorry for them though. It�s easy enough for the shift manager to find out who the supervisor of that game is/was and who the dealer is/was. Now the hunter (Advantage Player) has become the hunted.
Was the player s card invented to help players and to award them for their loyalty? Yes. Is the player�s card used to help and award those loyal players? No! The system is now used to discriminate against the losers and the winners. The losers get more gifts and special treatment to entice them to keep coming to the casino and signing their checks over to the casino on a bi-monthly basis. Those that win are isolated onto a special list that we will call the non-Schindler�s list. These players are subject to experiments such as special invitations that help the casino executives to set up traps knowing the target/subjects arrival and departure period. Now they wait and track that players each and every move. Yes Mom, surveillance is warned and also awaits these suckers err� I mean subjects arrival and will hawk these players like a perverted craps table crew on a dead game when a pretty girl walks by minus the wolf whistles and knee slapping.
So let�s recap. Player�s cards are used to discriminate and isolate players and to help the casinos eliminate the smart players from the sheep. This helps them to forecast future revenues.
Casino hosts, in my opinion, are like drunken, off duty whores (Al, can we be sued for this?). They won�t bother you if you�re playing low stakes. Now, if you�re losing big money they bum rush you like a loaded Sailor on his last night of liberty. On the same note, if you�re winning they cut into you like a hot knife through butter. They want as much information as possible from you so that it can be used against you. In other words, it helps them to 86 you when they know your name. Comments will be added to your players account remarks. It�s like a derogatory remark added to your credit because someone that had �juice� or the power of the pen didn�t like you.
Hosts like to suck up and cling on to losing players so that they can claim them as �their suckers�sh*t, I meant customers. Now every time this loser..,damn it, I meant player shows up at this particular casino the whore uhm, I really mean Host will be able to claim that player as their own customer which, in host jargon, is referred to as a P.L. (Pocket Liner).
Whores, I mean Hose�s (why am I having such a problem spelling out casino who�es, I mean Hosts�). Anyway they, the bum rushing, fake friendly, loser seeking, narc on the winner�s are known for selling their lists of known losers to other joints even though they signed an agreement with their employing casino promising not to screw them in the same manner as they were employed to do to the casinos players that they sold out. If that sounded like a pop-shot I apologize. It was meant to be an all out assault on the lack of integrity that these users ploy against unknown �marks� and how they discriminate against smart players. If you�re a host and reading this, I�m sorry asshole. Please feel free to Bite Me.
what�s worse is that their new trend is to send you a registered letter advising you that you are not permitted or welcomed to play or even enter their casino. By signing the receipt for the registered mail you have entered into a binding and enforceable contract with said casino.
No consideration changes hands so it's neither binding nor enforcable. Furthermore, sending a letter by certified mail, return reciept requested, only provides proof that the letter was recieved, but does NOT verify the contents of the letter. The reciepient can always deny having recieved the information the casino claims was sent to them.
According to Anthony Curtis of the Las Vegas Advisor/Huntington Press, this ruse was pulled on a few people by either the Santa Fe Station or the Fiesta casino with positive and enforcable results. I'm not 100% sure but I do remember AC (Las Vegas Advisor)doing an article on this because the charges stuck and hurt a mutual friend.
I AGREE IT'S UNETHICAL AND DOWNRIGHT UN-AMERICAN but so is the 16% hold on the Any 7 bet on the typical craps game.
-Cellini
If not, how are hundreds of APs, and dozens of teams, plying their trade everyday right under the prying eyes of the surveillance creeps? (How creepy is it to hide in a little room all day spying on people? - what do you do for a hobby - peek in your neighbor's window while standing in the bushes with your pants around your ankles?) A dealer at Harrah's Tahoe palmed over 1/2 million from her BJ table without being caught by the casino. So much for everything being caught on camera. I doubt if surveillance catches 10% of the nefarious activities. The Feds have spent hundreds of millions on the idiotic drug war without stopping 10% of the drug trade. Do you seriously think that the low rent dirtballs in the casino business can do better than that? You also overstate marketing omnipotence. Simply put, the past is not prologue. Pink may be preferred over green today, but what about tommorrow? And, judging from the number of unsolicited e-mails that I get, there is a huge demand for super-sized penises. Who buys those products? Surveillance creeps?
whores.
Most of the rating problem can be avoided by simply playing basic strategy in your home casino, perhaps using a small spread that should yield about an even game. Stay there. Get rated there. Get comps there. Play your serious blackjack in other casinos.
small comment.... recieved s/b received and reciept s/b receipt.
Happy New Year
[If you refuse to be rated, you are still rated under a �Refused Name� account set up for those that don�t want to be rated. This allows the �powers to be� to see how much money �the players that didn�t want the casino to know who they were� are winning, what game they�re playing, how long they�ve been playing, how much their average wager is/was, what hours they played, they�re basic description.]
Keeping track of all the, I don't know how many , thousands of players who play unrated in a big place and being able to retrieve all their back play same as a rated player, who gives you the key to all this info, would be an impossible nightmare. This would be like 1,000 times harder than keeping track of the backed off players and they are'nt all that great at that. I guarentee you that out of all my past anon. sessions the casinos have not ever be able to connect me to over 90% of them. No matter what your response is to this post, you won't change my mind.
Cellini I consider you hands down the MVP on BJ21 but I think you for some reason are making this refused name file sound much more easy and effective than it really is.
If you're familiar with the mind of an AP, you ought to know that counting is a process that takes place automatically almost like breathing.An exception are CSM's but who would waste his time at those machines.
Francis Salmon
Actually the computer won�t put a face to the player. what it's really trying to do is keep track of each table�s activities such as win, loss, fills, and so forth.
I agree that 90% of your play has not been connectable. But I�m sure you would agree that if you played at the same casino, on the same table or pit, every Thursday at the same time and you had bright red hair, you will get noticed and after you leave the table the pit boss is going to visit that table and take a few notes and try to figure out what you walked with. He may just call surveillance and ask them to review your play after the fact.
Surveillance keeps their recorded information for at least seven days so if you robbed the chip trays on a few tables in one night or over several visits during the week, surveillance can look at their coverage and maybe notice that every table that dumped had this same red headed player with the leather wrist band on his left hand, a cheap Timex watch on his right hand, a wedding ring and some type of class or super bowl ring. They will then attempt to get your photo.
This is the type of information they will store on you and sooner or later it will dawn on one of the sharpies.
The Refusal account is mainly used to help �Call the Ball� which is a term used by the shift managers to estimate how their shift is holding and about how much (in percent).
Hope this cleared things up. It is very possible to put a puzzle together over a period of time. Really, it's not impossible.
My apologies to all those hard working ladies of the night.
In fact just a few weeks ago I was playing at a table and this very decent looking lady sits next to me and asks me "so, what are you doing tonight." I replied "Just playing a little cards, how about you?" She smiled, winked, and said "I'm a working girl and I'm on duty right now." "Really", I said. "So what time do you get off? Maybe we can get together then." She stormed off.
>If not, how are hundreds of APs, and dozens of teams, plying their trade everyday right under the prying eyes of the surveillance creeps? <
I have no problem with APs and I don't think surveillance people are creeps.
>(How creepy is it to hide in a little room all day spying on people?<
I assume this is a non-surveillance related question that you have the answer to and you want me to take a stab at answering it? Well I don't know the answer to your riddle. Please share the answer with us.
>what do you do for a hobby - peek in your neighbor's window while standing in the bushes with your pants around your ankles?)<
Awww, see!! We have nothing in common because I think people that do this need help. I'm not trying to judge you or your hobby; only your Doctor can drive that point home. I do wish you luck and hope you find a more productive hobby. Those remote control cars can be lots of fun.
>A dealer at Harrah's Tahoe palmed over 1/2 million from her BJ table without being caught by the casino. <
You failed to mention some crucial facts that pertain to that scam. If you want to tell the whole story, I would be happy to add my opinion but I'm sure you will reserve yourself and reply to this post [or any post with my name on it or mentioned in it] in a negative and sarcastic fashion.
> So much for everything being caught on camera.<
I�m sure it was caught on camera. Now factor in human error, the industries lack of respect for surveillance observers and the pay that commensurate with that �lack of respect� and I think the answer becomes more than obvious.
>I doubt if surveillance catches 10% of the nefarious activities.<
This is a sucker statement; if surveillance realized that they failed to catch 90% of thefts, they would have certain insights of such �nefarious activities� and would be forced to take action. If they were privy to this information (90% of all generated revenue is missing) they would put a stop to it or at least investigate it.
> The Feds have spent hundreds of millions on the idiotic drug war without stopping 10% of the drug trade. Do you seriously think that the low rent dirtballs in the casino business can do better than that?<
No, I don�t. In fact I think I can speak for the entire casino industry and say with the utmost confidence that we, �low rent dirtballs in the casino business� would never start a drug war. Further more I doubt the casino industry could do a better job than the Feds in stopping the drug trade because when you look at the big picture there are quite a few differences between the hotel-casino business and an illegal drug trading cartel. By the way, how did you arrive at the choke point of 10%?
> You also overstate marketing omnipotence. Simply put, the past is not prologue. Pink may be preferred over green today, but what about tomorrow?<
I can�t argue with you on this point because I don�t have a clue what you are trying to say. All I did was post what I know for a fact is going on. I might have missed some crucial �keys� that would lend more explanation to the reader but that�s because of over exposure. People tend to think that others should know what they�re talking about and assume that they�re already educated and aware of all the little intricacies associated with the given industry or profession.
> And, judging from the number of unsolicited e-mails that I get, there is a huge demand for super-sized penises.<
Again let me suggest that you find another hobby. Did I mention the remote controlled cars and how they�re good, clean fun and would make a great hobby? Besides you won�t risk getting scraped up or bruised by your neighbor�s bushes.
> Who buys those products? Surveillance creeps?<
Whoaaa�.I�m sensing some hostility here now. Was it something I said or is it just the fact that I�m alive that bothers you?
Hope the snow isn�t giving you cabin fever.
Best
I do have cabin fever. I haven't been out of the house much - doing online speculating - and with the news on in the background all day, I'm going freakin' crazy. Terrorism all day and night, welding manholes cover shut, removing waste baskets from the streets so bombs can't be planted there, flights cancelled, patroling the strip with military aircraft, Micheal Jackson, Laci, Saddam, Kobe, Daffy Dean, slow horses.......I'm about this close (thumb and forefinger about 1/8" apart) to retiring in Cabo San Lucas and never reading a website, newspaper, or watching the news again. You're right, I needed an attitude check. That said, I still think it's creepy hiding in a room all day secretly watching people - tho that doesn't necessarily mean the people that do it are creeps. But today - the sun's out...so I'm outta here
>I still think its creepy hiding in a room all day secretly watching people<
You make a good point. A lot depends on the person�s mental disposition and if they enjoy helping or hurting others.
Most of my surveillance memories are fond ones. Having had the (dis) pleasure of working the casino floor for many years I found the surveillance room to be soothing and comforting. It was like being in a Sherman Tank. I could look out from my steel confines and see people doing battle and witness the mean and cruel things they did to each other without having to worry about personal injury. There is a lot to be said about feeling secure in your own environment.
On the other hand I had my share of dealings with surveillance observers and managers that thought they were God. They toyed with peoples lives and enjoyed making life hard on those they disliked for one reason or another. Truly sadistic! I covered a lot of this in the rag-tag mag I wrote. Do you have a copy? If not, shoot me a e mail {through this site} and I�ll see about getting you a copy of this over priced, over rated and less than �restroom worthy� book.
Best wishes and I hope you know it was all in fun (AIF). Your post had me laughing out loud because certain parts were reminiscent of some of the jerks I was forced to work for over the years.
-Cellini
... there is evidence that can be used in a future trial. A certified letter can be a tresspass warning, and if you sign for it, I think a judge would conclude you're on notice.
ETF
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