Hello,
I am new to BJ. Is card county necessary if you plan to play and win at BJ or is there another way? I see books that claim that but....
Can anyone learn to count and play or do you realy need to me very mentally sharp, good with numbers and be very good at staying focussed?
Where do I start at? What book?
Thank you!
Jimmy
"I am new to BJ. Is card county necessary if you plan to play and win at BJ or is there another way? I see books that claim that but...."
For some reason, Blackjack seems to attract every kook idea you can imagine. Phases of the moon, progressions, the earth is flat, have all been written about on how to beat blackjack. There are other ways of beating the game, but they all involve counting as a starting point or foundation.
"Can anyone learn to count and play..."
For the most part, if you are willing to expend a little effort learning. It is very hard at first, but with practice it is as easy as falling off a bar stool.
"or do you realy need to me very mentally sharp..."
Read posts from a lot of the people here and you will see mental sharpness is not a requirement ;>)
"good with numbers..."
If you call the ability to add 1 + 1 + 1 remember that total of 3, and a little while later subtract 1 from it, to arrive at an answer of 2, then yes, you do need a little skill with numbers.
"and be very good at staying focussed?"
Focus is a VERY good word. Like I said, counting gets easier and easier the more you do it, but focus is a very good trait to have. Also, Discipline. The ability to continue to make the proper bets at the proper time, even when you are losing, without falling into bad habits. The discipline to force yourself to practice. The discipline to walk away from bad games. Focus and Discipline will take you a long ways.
"Where do I start at? What book?"
"KO Blackjack" (which I think you can buy here), is a good book to start. Read the book, practice what it says, post questions here, you are on your way ...
On the main page of this site, there is a category: "BJ21 Resources"
under it is a link labeled "BJ School". Follow the link, read the lessons, practice, post questions here, it is a good place to start also.
If you were just staring out and knew nothing about BJ or VP and you wanted to learn one to make money. Which would be easier to learn and make monet at?
If you studied an hour a day, 5 days a week and more as time allowed, how long before you (on average) before you could make money consistently?
Thanks,
Jimmy
From my limited background in video poker, the bankroll required and time to find a positive expectation game are out of the reaches of most recreational players.
Blackjack is the way to go. However if you want to make real money, you need to start with real money. Don't expect to walk into a casino and start making withdrawls. With the time constraints you mentioned, you should be able to master Basic Strategy in a week, and learn to count in about a month. A few months after that, you will be ready for a casino.
By the way, what do you mean by "make money consistently"?
Most of the pros here make money consistently on a yearly basis but they don't win every day.
VP is easier to learn, but requires more bankroll and has an even longer term payback.
Probably ready for the casinos in 3 months if you spend an hour a day.
Then in another month or two, you will be in the world of optimum bets, bankroll requirements, risk of ruin, cover, camouflage ....
I guess BJ is the way to go. And I guess the book KO Blackjack is the best book for a beginner to start? Everyone agree? Id be ready for the casinos in about 3 months?
Jimmy
You can post questions here. When you are ready for the casino, post game conditions here, you can probably get help with best methods of attack.
While waiting for the book:
STEP 1: LEARN BASIC STRATEGY AND KNOW IT LIKE THE BACK OF YOUR HAND!
Drill basic strategy into your head until you see it in your sleep.
go to www.blackjackinfo.com and click the basic strategy engine link, to get the CORRECT basic strategy charts.
They have different basic stratedgies for the different amounts of decks. Do you need to learn it for all of them? In Shreveport they have 2 deck, hand shuffled and dealt decks. I can play there. Is that the best basic one to learn? They have the 6 deack ones there too.
Jimmy
Now you are starting to do some work! Does the dealer hit or stand on soft 17? That will cause changes also. Are you allowed to double after split, or not? More changes there.
Learn 6 deck, S17, DOA (double on any), DAS (double after split) basic strategy. It will serve best as a 'universal' basic strategy. When you get it down cold, start looking at double deck basic strategy. There will be 4 or 5 plays that differ. Then look at what changes when the dealer hits soft 17. And what you shouldn't be splitting if you can't double down.
With a solid knowledge of one basic strategy to serve as a foundation, it is easy to incorporate a few execeptions here and there, as number of decks and rules change.
Each game has its own flavor. Double deck is easier to count, and favorable situations present themselves more often. It also has higher variance. Favorable situations develop more slowly in 6 decks, but when they do occur, they last longer.
You can build your bets up gradually in 6 decks, in double deck you have to jump your bet or you will lose your advantage quickly when the dealer has to shuffle. You can get away with spreading more in 6 decks without the pit taking notice. You can also probably sit out hands or jump into the middle of shoes without too much problem.
On the other hand, it is nice in double deck when your high count max bet double down gets the 10 card it is supposed too, and the dealer busts, instead of the dealer getting 21 with one of the 12 remaining 5s that are still in the shoe despite the high count.
In 6 decks there are probably more tables available to play at. In double deck, you don't have to wait very long for a shuffle to get rid of a bad situation, instead of slogging thru hand after hand of a bad shoe.
Thanks a lot for taking the time to explain all that. I'll start with the 6 deck then.
Hope to talk with you again soon!
Jimmy
make money at BJ unless you are either lucky or you consider a net gain over every 24 to 36 month period to be consistent. A casino with several tables of bj going nearly 24/7 makes a consistent profit. A single card counter simply has an edge that will generally translate to profit over long periods of time with lots of volatility in between. VP can be even worse. Most of the ev in VP is tied up in the Royal, a 1/40,000 event. You can go a very long time between royals.
But another way to look at it, as bad as it is, it is still a bit more consistent than the stock market.
Hello Sotsog,
Wow, DD' just broke my bubble. Is this your experience too? The drawndown is so steep and the winnings so gradual that you have to wait every two months to see if you are ahead? There is a guy on Gamblers Glen message board posting under ''roulette topics'' named betbrett, that has posting a long time and is well respected and he says he averages $1500-$2000 a week playing blackjack with $25 chips. He said two 3-day trips in a row was his biggest drawdown in the last 10 years he has been playing. I don't know what to think. What do you say on this issue? What is your experience?
Thank for the input.
Jimmy
Appeal to Sotsog as a higher authority to possibly over-rule DD�s opinion.
It really isn�t an issue of experience. It is an issue of mathematics.
What DD� say is correct.
PS: I came late to this discussion, but let me add something to it. There is something about VP. VP players are almost never barred, back-roomed, etc. At this point in your career, this is not a consideration. But the longer you play, the more appealing VP looks.
I wash I could play it. Unfortunately, I ploy VP the way I type.
a couple of thousand a week playing bj over the last 6 years. I won over 200K last year. But I'm down about 40K this year. Year before last I had a net win of only 22K for the year and was losing for the year in late November. In 1999 I netted over 160K. It is simply not consistent or steady and you can't hope for it to be.
I don't doubt this guy who never had more than a couple of losing trips in a row. That's not all that unusuall. It is also not unusual to have a very long losing streak. Or, you could have a random walk with a downward slope that could go on 12 to 18 months before taking a gradual turn upward. All our aim is as card counters is to play with an edge. You will be unable to play enough hands in your lifetime to have a very high probability of winning close to theoretical. On the other hand, if you'd be happy with half your theoretical and play fairly decent games, you have a very high probability of winning at least that in just a few years if you are an active player. The most successful long time solo pro bj player I know (over 20 years) pays himself half of his theoretical after each trip. He has a very large bank relative to his bet sizes and is probably safe doing this as he understands the fluctuations and is in it for the very long term.
They have the best overall game in Shreveport. When Harrah's eventually tells you no more blackjack you will know that your game is strong enough to play elsewhere.
you play at casinos with positive-off-top games with right basic strategy... There are not many but still available such casinos, not at US, though.
You go up. You go down. Sometimes you go down for a long time. Sometimes you jump up sky high in a day, only to lose it all back in the next week.
After it is all said and done, when you add up all your winnings for a year and subtract all your losses, you will be slightly ahead of the game, hopefully.
In the long run you have an advantage, but in the short run anything can happen.
Are all the BJ tables at Harrahs the same? Do you play the 2 deck games?
Jimmy
all six deck and has the best overall game in that area.
