Does anyone have info on the current conditions at Mandalay Bay? Do they have DD? Hoping for a game similar to that offered at Mirage or Palms. Haven't been to Vegas in nearly a year. Where are the best DD games now for green to low black action?
Thanks in advance,
Doc
I'm beginning to think that the more we keep talking about the importance of pen and good conditions, which places have it and which places don't, the less we are going to actually find it.
Just my two cents.
I think as counters we should form a group and REVOLT. Thats right if we cant play good games then no one can. I will start up the revolution as a leader I need your support. Any casinos offering poor games for skilled players will be subject to a real Blackjack across their empty little #$@$@$@# heads.
if you think that what we say on here has no bearing on what happens with industry conditions, you're naive. However, I'm not hear to debate this and ruffle your feathers. I need your help too. We are on the same side.
If you are truly interested in spearheading a "REVOLT", then I will support your efforts. Count me in to one extent or another. You may even wish to read my efforts on this same issue. Just do a search in this message system back to Dec. 1 using the key word; 'picket' you will find my posts. There were also a number of others responding to my posts who had some very good ideas also. You can do a search on their names during the same time period. Or it may be even easier if you just look at the full message treads starting with my posts. A few of those people are noted as follows: Chappy, OldCootFromVA, Rob McGarvey, Kool, Golden, misfitcounter, LVBear 584, AK(s), blue eyed samurai, Al Rogers. I think you may even be able to count in the support of these people too.
If we can just unite, it will start the ball rolling in the right direction.
So, what do you have in mind as a begining for the "REVOLT"?
Stealth Bomber
I'm quiting work for the day, logged on, read this, and it just made me .. I don't know, laugh, I guess.
Here's is how you can really stick it to them:
Find some vacant land right smack in the middle of the strip. I know finding it will be tough, but get as close to the center as possible.
Then build a really nice place; short on rooms but long on table game space -your gonna need it, believe me.
Start pitching SD to down near the bottom, stand on S17,and let em' DAS, that should do the trick.
Have plenty of 6D, for the beginneers you know, but deal to 90% and don't take too much time shuffling; just a quick riffle and restack should do it.
And oh 'yea .. comp early and comp often. (I'm thinking I stole that line from Al Capone .. no he said VOTE early and vote often. Good, I'm OK then.)
Your place will be bulging with all the players who have been secretly hating those corporate rat bastards that have been offering those other crappy games; LET THE REVOLUTION BEGIN!!
Those other burn joints will be empty, empty I tell 'ya, and they'll feel your pressure. Yes sir, they'll feel it but good.
And just as soon as the counters clean you out, the ploppies that stopped by to see what all the hub bub was about will slog back over to where they were playing .. because you'll be closed. BK. Chapter 7.
Your best move is to learn to play good and go find the good games.
Personally try to save a ploppy along the way from the evils of 6:5, work on keeping the NGC's collective feet to the fire, accidently spill the urine sample you had in your hand on the Mind Play tables as you walk by, and don't take a rough barring laying down.
I'm not looking for the next revolution, I just hope BJ sticks around and that Video Poker dosen't overtake all the floor space.
Good luck -yes this came off a little sarcastic and for that I'll apologize in advance. But it's Saturday, I worked all day, and I'm really tired.
already. That's why as a countermeasure they 1/2 shoe players instead of dealing to the bottom.
All this talk about loose lips, and revolutions, and picketing?
I was just hoping to get some idea where there are currently playable DD games and whether Mandalay Bay offered any.
Doc
Granted a casino would go broke if they offered optimal counting/tracking conditions, but there are some things they could do that would make the games more attractive to a counter yet also make the casino more money. Increasing penetration is one such example. For 99% of the people out there (those who don't count) the decreased penetration costs the casino money. It slows the games down (even with the sufflemasters) so the casinos get less ploppie action per hour. By increasing the penetration they could increase the number of hands dealt per hour and increase their expected value per hour. They might attract a few more counters but counters can be identified and handled with countermeasures.
It seems casinos are overreacting and hurting themselves just to keep counters away. Why hurt all of your unwitting ploppie action just to prevent counters from playing when they can be dealt with by other means which wouldn't hurt the casino?
I always have to laugh when I see a game get stopped because a casino and player get into an argument over a $5 or $10 bet. If a customer claims that he wasn't correctly paid over such a small bet then it would be in the casinos best interest to just give the customer the money and keep the game going. For one you will get a much happier customer. Even more importantly, keeping the game moving means the casino can make more money off of all of the action on the table by getting in more hands/rolls/spins.
I have seen a craps table where there were a couple players betting hundreds of dollars in proposition bets each and every roll (not to mention tons on the pass line) and the floorperson stopped the game to argue with a customer over a $5 field bet that wasn't paid. The casino probably had to have an EV of $100 or $200 per roll and the game stopped for over a minute while the dice were held up. It was stupid.
Sun Runner, you're not helping with your sarcasm. Yes, I'm sure it's funny to some. People thought Einstein was crazy. People also laughed at Noah when he began to build the Arc.
I'm not expecting to change the casinos to the extent they are begging us to come and play. As you and many others know, the conditions have been declining over the years. If it continues at the same pace, we will have nothing worth playing in the not too distant future and the stupid people will continue to donate to the big beautiful casinos. My take is that the big casinos make more than they need to stay in business and to be satisfied enough to continue. Probably waaaaaaaaay more! Take a good look at them the next time you cruse down LV strip.
If we can create an organization, which gains momentum, we will have enough power to keep the games from getting worse. There are ways to do this. Also, there is plenty of money out there in the industry. Do you really think that if the major casinos on the LV strip had to give to their players an extra 1% that they would just give up and quit the casino business? I would be really happy if they would just loosen their games .5%
I don't have all the answers. However, there are many people who do have good ideas. If you don�t want to help with some positive thoughts and ideas, that�s okay. There are some of us who will eventually make something happen. Ever heard the story of the Little Red Hen?
when it comes to penetration. Some casinos just can't stand for anyone to have a chance to win and just cutoff 2.5 decks out of 6 (Imperial Palace) so that they don't have to watch anything. Some casinos have shitty games and still sweat them like they're dealing to the bottom (the 6:5 games are a good example of this).
Other casinos don't think many people have the skills to get an edge and deal very deeply to maximize rounds between shuffles (and consequently rounds per hour) and then smartly watch their games for players who might have a chance to beat them. Other casinos try to strike a balance between the various penetration options.
When a casino deals 75% at double deck it is not by accident. The table games manager made a conscious decision that he would make more money dealing more rounds per hour by dealing deeply than by shuffling more often. When we post about pen at certain casinos we should just state the facts without extra embellishment. For example, when talking about penetration we should simply give the basic info...The Palms deals 50% on their 2D game, Suncoast deals 80% on their 2D game.
The info that is damaging to disclose on public websites is the other stuff that characterizes a casino...especially its game protection...especially positive information. If I were to say that Suncoast deals 80% at 2D and takes table min-max bet spreads without blinking from all players I would probably be responsible for getting a game burned out very very quickly (don't bother...they sweat the action like all of the other Coast properties). However, mentioning negative information is useful as it saves all of us time that we could be spending playing or searching for better games elsewhere..
They have 2 or 3 $25 min DD tables, with barely more than one deck dealt out.
Lots of shoes, with a weird mix of S17 and H17, so watch out. Also a few 8-deckers thrown in.
CBJN will tell you all this.
And M Bay can get VERY nasty if they discover you are not a chump.
At what point will all the talk become action? I've spoken about this for years yet get few followers. With LV Strip billboards and advertising informing people and directing them to informative current and updated websites on each casino's practices, the uneducated will soon learn of the fleecing the are being subjected to. If we cannot play a fair game than they should not be able to profit by only dealing to guaranteed losers. Casino owners are no heroes because they deal grandma out of her Social Security money. Yet assume anyone not close to dementia be considered for exclusion.
A contribution to a revolution fund or even a couple of bucks each added onto our BJ21 cost could pay for this. Not to mention the advertising we could get from casinos we give favorable writings to. When does the collective whining of the 21 players end and action take over?
I nominate Stealth Bomber or LV Bear for our fearless leader.
mentioning negative information is useful
These are some very key words. If we could inform a few million Joe Ploppies of the world about certain specific casinos who are trying to dump bad games on them, we would see the changes in vertually all the games and comps being offered.
Here's another idea:
Every time we find out that they back-off or 86 a member of our elite "revolution squad" we make a special effort to target them with any and all negative but true media. This serves to issues; 1) Gets negative informative news out to the players about the perpetrators. 2) Gives incentive to join and support the crusade.
Mini-me, where are you? What do you think? What do the rest of you think?
Stealth Bomber
OK, I'm through being sarcastic. Let's do some thinking ...
First, speaking of the the "Little Red Hen", let's talk about you and your patriot in arms, Chappy.
How much of your money and time are you two -no kidding -ready and willing to spend to "make the bread?" Be specific. Dollars and hours per year for the next several years. Please be specific. Let me know.
(So far, the most definitive statement I have read from you is "Count me in to one extent or the other." Not exactly a Patrick Henry 'give me liberty or give me death' commitment.)
Chappy's ready to throw himself full force into the fray.
(But rather than take the lead, he would prefer that yourself or LVBear be in charge.)
Don't be afraid now, let's think ...
How many people out there really give a darn about the revolution? Including you, I'll generously allow about 300.
(300 is near the upper limit of numbers of readers to any one post both here and at "advantageplayer.com." I know that many posts get read more than once by the same reader, but I'm still willing to go 300.)
(Also, of these 300, I would say 50% could not care less about the revolution but again I'll say 300.)
OK, 300 people are going to "commit." How much? $250? $500? $1,000? per year.
If I had an organization ready tomorrow to start the fight -how much can I count on from each of the 300? Let's say, on average, $500 each. Let's say $500 per year for the next five years.
Next, we get LVBear to quit playing BJ and work for us full time. How much of that $150,000 will he need to make the switch? Probably all of it. So then what?
Do I need to post an operating budget for the kinda money you need to do something like this effectively!?
Office rent, telephones, pencils, papers, computers, copiers, scanners, printers, secretaries, national advertising budgets, payola (payola? oops, better scratch payola!), insurance, payroll taxes, etc, etc, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.
Maybe we get some sponsors. Who? Stanford Wong? Viktor Nacht? Anthony Curtis? Max Rubin? (Yea -the BJ Hall of Fame -they should be good for an annual contribution.) Who really cares about card counters getting a game that's ".5% better?" Who really cares that the citizens are playing 6:5 BJ?
Believe me when I say I'm all for the idea. I haven't been playing BJ as long as many others and the idea that it will "go away" before I get rich [ :) ] is frightening to me. I've invested a truck full of time and energy into learning something and I hate to think of it becoming worthless.
Just tell me -specifically -who really cares enough to fund this deal, because it will take money. Who really cares enough to work this deal, because it will take time.
Call me when your ready to start accepting donations. If you can convince me your serious, will work hard, and have a resonable game plan, then I'm in.
Where do I send the first .. $250?
I feel like I've fallen in to a bad video game.
"Stealth Bomber" .. "Mini-me" .. "elite revolution squad" .. "incentive to join and support the crusade" .......
I'm sorry for engaging in a serious chat with you guys. Are y'all even out of high school yet?
