Can anyone out there verify that this counting stuff actually works. ive baught a few books, but it seems like counting is highly promoted like on websites like this.
i would love to hear some true stories for a change.
thanks
Hey musky slayer are you in wisconsin? Yes counting does work. If you learn Basic strategy and indices from -1 to +6 as Mr. wong suggests you can have a great time. I just came back from four excellent days in vegas. I made money. The is my third plus $ trip. The rest were small losses or break even on the bank roll. I started this black jack thing by first reading every thing I could get my hands on. This has been for a couple of years. It was this last year I have decided to try and learn to play like a pro. This intails a lot of research and practice. I know basic strategy cold. I know 40 or so indices for changing the strategy. I can now after this trip walk up to a table and scan with a glance and know not only the running count but the true count. I was able to try out my first experience at wonging and I made ten $50 dollar bets. I lost two. :)!!!!. I camped out at a table for seven and a half hours and counted my ass off. I was able to make strategy changes with the count and I bet well on the positive counts. I learned some new cover techniques. I walked from the table when the TC hit -1, only returning after the shuffle to start a fresh attack. In the end of this trip I did learn that I have to learn more about the single deck game which I did not do well on at first. I did do better when I used the KO count at the single deck games. I was beter suited to the six deck games. I had a blast. I can tell you learning how to count is a bitch but when you get it down it comes out smooth. The only thing that is hard to consume is when your count is perfect; you are able to predict cards coming out; but you still lose. Those swings are crazy. If your going to do it Musky slayer make time. If you have a family it is tough. Learning this is a daily thing. Once you get it down then it becomes interesting.
read Don Schlesinger's Blackjack Attack. That will really spell it out for you. Part of the problem is that much of the material that is published isn't worth the paper it's written on.
Good luck,
BJ INSIDER
I have 2 million reasons.
Can anyone out there verify that this counting stuff actually works. ive baught a few books, but it seems like counting is highly promoted like on websites like this.
Counting works, but not in the manner most of the books portray it.
The fluctuations associated with counting the modern shoe game are extreme, particulary if you resize your bets. I have stories of spectacular big wins, but I also have stories of terrible losses, one of which lasted over a year. The wins outweighed the losses, but often I felt I was going nowhere. I only count occassionally with amounts of money I don't care about now, preferring to exploit newer or more exotic gambling opportunities.
Chippewah Flowage area (sorry for spelling) and areas near Shawno area. This was in the late 70's. Sorry I can't remember all the names of the lakes. Used to use suckers and suic lure for bait. I used to fish for walleye and bass and northern too. Miss it. How is the white bass run this year on the wolf?
counting is hard work, it can be done but only with a lot of time and a huge amount of discipline... if your asking i can only assume you have not put in the time or effort.. do you count or are you just asking.... if you want a true story how bout someone who started with 500 dollars did nothing but wong... i mean going to the casino and playing just one or two hands all night long ...jumping in winning asn walking away slowly building his bankroll to twenty thousand....does not work eats for free and enjoys life to the fullest....believe me this is not a pipe dream it takes lots of practice huge amounts of discipline and big balls...everything is relative to your roll and how much is enough for you....that varies from player to player and no matter what the biggest thing is knowing when to leave( minnimize your losses avoid catastrophic days and dont be afraid to take a small win ...the casino isnt going anywhere it will be there tommorow ...good luck slayer
John,
Counting works, but not in the manner most of the books portray it.
I don't understand what you are saying. I think you would agree that the reputable books paint a pretty accurate assessment of what a counter can expect. Sometimes they seem overly gloomy.
I only count occassionally with amounts of money I don't care about now
You are implying that counting is simply gambling to you now, why?
preferring to exploit newer or more exotic gambling opportunities.
Can you specify what opportunities you are talking about. I know that you have mentioned many opportunities in your last book, I am interested in what you might be exploiting now. For example, sequencing intrigues me, and I'm not sure that I could do it, but eventually I will find out.
Thanks,
motheye
i guess when your stuck having to play shoes-thats how you end up.i guess you live in AC.the shoe came is a tall order and takes so many more hands to double your bankroll compared to sd or dd.what you should tell musky ,in my opinion,is the shoe game w/o a huge bankroll and a large average bet-compared to playing red-is alot of friggin work and will make very little money an hour.i read one post about a guy playing the shoes with a 1-10 spread in red.what a waste of time.burger king employees will make more an hour.for me,when im 86ed from all the good sd and dd games i will retire.musky,i will tell you staight(and ive said this before only to get flamed)the shoe games suck!!!stay away from them or you to will end up sounding like may.the shoe game should only be played when your average bet is so high it will not be tolerated on the sd or dd games.ive counted down shoes for fun and in bj tournaments(was at the harrahs bj tourney this weekend) and its always negative.you will be spending all your time walking from table to table looking for a positive hand or 2.this weekend at harrahs i played 4 shoes with 80% pen and the count went positive for about 5 HANDS!!!my advice to you is use a unbalanced count and stick to sd and dd.i personally have tripled my starting bankroll from january playind sd and dd.if i played shoes i would probably be down money and end up quiting for good.good luck.....
i got a question for you though. in the casino i play, it is either double deck 50% pen. or 4 deck 75% pen. i went to that program that calulates the score and advantage, and these two game situations came out exactly even. so i was planning on playing the 4 deck to recieve less heat from the pit bosses and also i would get a lot more 1 vs 1 action on the less crowded 4 deck?
What are your thoughts on this??
i dont get many high TC with the DD 50% pen
on 50% dd because the game sucks.if its h17 its even worse.if you see 50% pen you must walk.you need a minimum of 60%.to beat that 50% game you need a huge spread which will only get you 86ed.where do you play at that has 4 decks.if thats the only games you have i suggest you move to vegas:)
give me a shoe game with good pen and I will make money. I'll take a 6d with 83% over a DD with 50% anyday... and with a lot less attention or cover.
shoe is better then 50% pen on dd.thats why i said walk with the 50% game.you can beat 6 decks with 80% pen but have fun running around counting shoe after shoe looking for a positive run-and if your only playing red why waste your time doing it.if you do it for recreation-fine- but if you want to make 50k a year you wont do it playing red.i play to win more then 10 to 25 an hour.i also have to enjoy playing bj.as i said before i dont enjoy playing the shoes and would rather have a full time job.im trying to be honest with the new players who read books on how to beat the shoe and after playing- end up frustrated because they are in the hole or up a little after a year.
I don't understand what you are saying. I think you would agree that the reputable books paint a pretty accurate assessment of what a counter can expect. Sometimes they seem overly gloomy.
Well, I've never seen figures for the possibility of a loss over a year with typical spreads and conditions using Kelly, which most serious players use. I don't think people have any idea how long the negative swings can last at shoe shoe blackjack, the unluckiest players in marginal games can be looking at the best part of a decade.
In fact, only Schlesinger's book and mine cover the probability of long losing sessions without resizing.
In addition to this, there is a body of evidence, supported by a number of practitioners, that due to a cocktail of real-world factors your true expectation will only reallize about half your theoretical expectation. Expenses are a big, big problem, of blackjack authors only Snyder mentions this in passing concerning his failed team experiment.
Finally, many of the books cover average earnings as if an average win rate of $10.00 is equivalent to flat hourly earnings of $10.00. Unfortunately, when you introduce the concept of certainty equivalent, the amount of hard cash a given wager is worth, blackjack earnings are valued at much less than that, perhaps half the original figure.
You are implying that counting is simply gambling to you now, why?
Well, of course, I would never gamble without a theoretical edge. But I'm unwilling to put myself through hell in pursuit of the goal any more so I make sure no loss can interfere with my emotional well-being. I did it for several years and I will do it again if it becomes neccessary, but there are so many interesting low-variance options elsewhere it would just be pure masochism.
Can you specify what opportunities you are talking about. I know that you have mentioned many opportunities in your last book, I am interested in what you might be exploiting now. For example, sequencing intrigues me, and I'm not sure that I could do it, but eventually I will find out.
Right now, I'm getting away from blackjack into P2P betting. Yesterday I was able to obtain three times the average odds the traditional bookmakers were offering on a soccer match. I believe a real revolution is brewing in this area.
My blackjack activities have mostly been confined to team attacks on the red/blue opportunities in France (see bjmath for a discussion). I've also been training a friend to gamble online.
Sequencing opportunities can be very profitable here in Britain where some extremely vulnerable shuffles are still used, but unfortunately I've earned myself an almost universal barring.
...most games in the world are shoes. Most people have no choice in the matter.
As scobee1 points out, shoes may be acceptable with fantastic penetration.
what do you think? i use a 1-8 spread, hi-low.
