KO vs KISS III

I've been practicing both the KO preferred and KISS III system. The sims seem to give almost equal results, however I haven't read any posts here of anyone who has successfully used the KISS system? I seem to think that the KISS basic strategy variations are more accurate than KO since KISS uses different indicies for the departures (ie more than A,B,C groups in KO). Has anyone here use KISS, or should I stick with the KO which has proven casino results. Thanks.

I use KO, and don't know much about KISS, but the author is well respected, so I would assume it'll get the job done.

Pick which ever one is most comfortable to you. All the "big" name systems will get the money. Worry more about using your chosen system correctly. Pick one. Get to know it inside out....and good luck.

I've got about 800 hours under my belt with the KISS III and am very pleased with its performance and ease of use. Personally, I think its more user friendly than KO due to its one constant pivot of 20RC and is more thorough with 21 individual indices. Before KISS, I languished in the Hi Opt I, but was never competent with negative running counts or true count conversions.

that someone has had success with this system. Do you mind me asking what your win rate is over those 800 hours? Also, do you play mostly shoe or pitch games. I'm sure that KISS can equal hi-lo and KO in shoe games, just not convinced about its potential in pitch games. I've been also learning to do some true count fudging for some of the higher index strategy plays.
I too learned HiOpt as my first system, then learned later that it was never meant for shoe games. Imagine keeping an ace count with true count correction with 8 decks!

For the bet size and bet spread I personally use, my results have fallen in fairly close proportion to the chart on page 161 of Renzey's book. I play six deck shoes almost exclusively, but some double deck when I go to Las Vegas. I do true fudge my indices for 10 vs. A, for 15 vs. 10, for 16 vs. 9 and for insurance. The rest I don't mess with. I also play 16 vs. 10 in true count mode according to the table on page 176. Lately I have been toying with counting all the deuces as +.5 instead of half of them as +1. All things in due time.

are detailed in Blackjack Bluebook II by Fred Renzey. It's on Amazon.com for sure.

Lent out my copy of Bluebook II yesterday, can someone tell me the insurance index for 1/2D games. I know it is 25 for shoes, now practicing for pitch games... Thanks.

from KO to KISS? What are the tags for KISS?
Thanks,
just me

If you're already intimately familiar with the KO, I'd say no, it's probably not worth changing because they both perform similarly. Choosing between the two a year ago, I just thought the KISS was more clearly laid out and more fully formatted. It dictates the betting spreads and ramps for each number of decks. The IRC is always a positive number. You always start ramping up your bet at the same running count of 20 (with one deck or eight). It's pivot (the point at which it is perfectly accurate) is at a more common true count of +2 rather than at a rarer +4. It has 21 separate indices for basic strategy departure and 8 surrender indices.

Card tags are:
red 2 = 0
blk 2 = 1
3 = 1
4 = 1
5 = 1
6 = 1
7 = 1
8 = 0
9 = 0
10 = -1
A = -1

I like that it tells the experienced user how to fudge the larger indices depending upon current deck penetration, and how to play the marginal hands in true count mode. It also offers the option of counting all the deuces as plus one half, improving the efficiency some more. Right out of the book, you can take it further than KO. Those were my reasons a year ago and I'm down to the last improvement step now.

I bought both the KO book and the Blackjack Bluebook II, but I think the bluebook is a better overall blackjack book. The author lays out the various counting strategies in great detail, I use the KISS III. Also, I think the playing indices are more accurate than in KO. I think KISS III performs just as well as hi-lo in 6 deck games.

Insure at 21RC in single deck and at 23RC for double deck.

Just got my book back, it says take insurance at 22 for 2 deck games. But this is for the KISS II chart, which I use for KISS III. DO you make the adjustment since you start the running count lower? Thanks.

Page 148 of my copy says to insure double deck at 22RC, but that's with the KISS I system. KISS II and KISS III are at 23RC (page 155). Not sure why. Probably has something to do with the KISS I ignoring one of the Tens.