Ken Uston on Ace side count

Hello again to all!!! I just got through reading Ken Uston on Blackjack and had a question I know can be answered here. In his book, Uston states that he was using an advanced point count with a side count of aces. He says that after much training and utilization of this count he later found out by a study by Stanford Wong that the ace side count in an APC gives only minimal extra edge compared to the effort exerted. I use AOII with the ace side count and was wondering if it would be wise for me to discontinue the ace side count and focus solely on the variable playings of this strategy? If not, how much edge does the ace side count add to this system. As always, any response is greatly appreciated. BTW, I am currently playing only 2 deck H17 DAS, split up to 4 times, and split aces once with about 70-75% penetration. Thanks again.

Happy Hunting!!!
gh

greenhorn,

In Blackjack for Blood, Bryce Carlson states that the ace sidecount increases the betting efficiency from 0.92 to 0.99, which increases your advantage by up to 0.2% (page 90, paragraph 1). Since under good conditions, card counting gives an overall 2% advantage, you can see that the ace sidecount in AOII accounts for up to one-tenth of your total edge.

Look on the bright side, greenhorn... for DD, you never need to count more than 8 aces per shoe ;-)

Dog Hand

Dog Hand,

Thanks for the your perspective. After reading your post I reread my copy of Blackjack for Blood and now concur. I guess it just amazed me that a master like Uston would say the extra edge didn't equal to the amount of effort it took to do it correctly. This was a man who sought out every advantage and exploited it to its fool capacity. I guess different strokes for different folks. Anyway, thanks again for the reply, and yes I wouldn't be using this count if I didn't only play single and double deck;-)
Happy Hunting!!!
gh

when he downplays the importance of the Ace Sidecount he is referring to comparing a strong Ace Reckoned system like Halves to a strong system with Ace Sidecount like Uston APC....he is not suggesting using an ace neutral system like A02 without the sidecount. For Ace-neutral systems you must use the sidecount or you lose too much betting effeciency.

as I am only proficient with HiLO, KO, and AOII; I couldn't quite understand what he was getting at. Thanks for clearing it up for me bigplayer. As always, you're right on.
Thanks again,
gh

right after he gives his schpeel on the A side count vs effort, he goes on to tell us that he is practicing the Revere Point Count plus indices before he launches his next casino attack. Do as I say, not as I do is fine for your kids at home. If you can do it with no errors, do it. If you can't, drop to the lazy man's Hi Opt II, the Zen count, or even the High Low.

as I love using AO2 in play to its full extent. It's just like Carlson says "it is slick." "It reminds me of a high-powered car roaring through a canyon in hot pursuit."(pg 154 paragraph 1 of Blackjack for Blood) But, as I am still relatively new and unspoiled in counting, I just wanted to make sure after reading Uston's book that I hadn't missed an important discovery by Wong concerning the ace side count. Everyone has been very helpful in answering my questions, and all responses are appreciated. I'll finish this post with another of my favorite lines from the book: "by the time you have mastered the AO2 System and the earlier material on camouflage and money management, you will be, as far as casinos are concerned, an international terrorist, armed and dangerous; armed with knowledge, and a danger to the bottom line.(pg 154 prgph 2 of Blackjack for Blood)" Hope rereading this gets everyone's juices flowing today, as it always does for me!!!
Happy Hunting!!!
gh

In Blackjack for Blood Carlson recommends against AOII for games using more than two decks even though he provides the indices for a 6 deck game.

I see it often in my reading that either KO or Hi-Lo are the counts to use for a six deck game...side counting is tiring, it increases the liklihood of an error in counting and success in the six/eight deck game depends more on betting strategy than playing strategy than the double or single deck games. But for double deck game, a side count of aces is worth a go. Don't worry, if you lose track of the side count during a deck, the running count will still give guidance, (Carlson estimated a 1.5% average advantage as possible). And as mentioned in another response, with two deck game it won't be long until you get a shuffle and a fresh start on your side count.