I have developed a gambling problem

I am no longer the advantage player I used to be. There was a span of several years when I studied and took great pride in the game of Blackjack; it was a passion. I have compiled a large library of books, magazines, articles, and computer software. I have spreadsheets analyzing my statistical gaming history. I have written amateur computer programs verifying basic strategy, aiding my counting skills, and various academic stats. I have read and learned a considerable amount of information from many brilliant players from forums such as this. I have traveled all over the country playing. My game was counter measured and loathed at by the casino. I was a good player and my profits reflected it.

But now it has waned. I am still coming to terms of what went wrong. This is a touchy subject, but I feel that putting my ego aside and coming clean about it is the only way I am going to heal from this. Let�s say you make a simple graph of the x axis being time, and the y axis being profit. I continually demanded that line to be linearly upwards with insufficient x, especially as every session of playing. We all know that this is unsustainable, but I subconsciously refused to accept that. I lost all patience and demanded immediate gratification of earnings. I continually wanted less x and more y, perhaps exponentially. I over bet, played negative counts, played too long and often, sacrificed my health, missed work, and hurt my family and friends in the process. I became the gambler I scoffed at. I now have personally learned what the definition of compulsion really means. It�s an irrational disorder that will drive you crazy. I have realized that negative gambling is really not an intellectual problem, but rather a psychological one. Whether it�s due to genetic and or environmental factors, I don�t know for sure, but I can tell you that it can happen to the best of us.

I don�t wish this problem on my worst enemy. It is a never ending cycle of torment. I am now taking drastic measures to stop it once and for all. Peace to you all, and I wish you all the best.

Sincerely,

Dave Jay.

"I am now taking drastic measures to stop it once and for all."

I hope you mean that you are seeking professional help, not considering a slide down the outside of the Luxor!

I would warn you, not that I have personal knowledge of the guy, about Art Schlicter's non-profit organization. See posts from last week. Maybe he's turned a corner, but he made a bet as recently as a year ago from prison. I have followed his "career" somewhat. He had a talk show in NV and actually bilked money from his fans to fuel his gambling. I'm also not passing judgement on him...a disease is a disease. One wouldn't make fun of a person with MS, cancer etc..., so we shouldn't with gambling addiction.

Because I can count, I do, though I know it's of minimal value. It's tough not to utilize a skill when you have it. That seems to be your situation and you have a lot of skill you want to use.

I don't understand something in your situation. Are you truly compulsive or do you just really love the math and cat/mouse while also being too optimistic about the income potential? Why not use the game for comps and not worry so much about profit? Why take it to the nth degree of analysis when good solid play gets you an even game or even some positive EV? High/Lo plus Ill18, add comps and have some fun?

I rarely get the chance to play, so I'm actually not sure counting is even worthwhile at all for me. Yet I spend time on this site and think about 21 all the time. There's a strong pull about this game despite the puny potential of a non-pro. Maybe you should move 5 hours away from any decent casinos.

Could you find some players to help finance so you're still in the game without so much X? Good luck in reducing your X and your Y. Put it towards the fam! Keep posting about it here as I'm sure you'll find support.

Are there some good posts or written materials about this? I would think Wong, The bear etc... would have written on the topic. Thank you.

"I don't understand something in your situation. Are you truly compulsive or do you just really love the math and cat/mouse while also being too optimistic about the income potential?"
Mathematical knowledge pertaining to BJ and compulsion are disjoint. I have a degree of computer science and minored in mathematics. It�s not how much statistical or probabilistic knowledge you deeply know. The late Peter Griffin�s �Theory of Blackjack� took me a long time to understand thoroughly. There�s a lot overhead. But, from the overall perspective, you know what to bet, you know the playing decisions you must make, you know when to come in and when to leave�BUT YOU DON�T DO IT, cause you always want to feel good � you have a short attention span of feeling good. There was an elderly man sitting to the right of me at Sands casino a few years back when they had the 4 deck . I doubled my bet. Immediately, I heard a phone call from the pit. One of the floormen stopped the dealer from dealing � it was fast. I was, along with everyone else, denied the bet and reshuffled on. The gentleman was like �In my 30 years of playing, I�ve never seen anything like this�. That fed my ego even though it was just a TC of 2. I left the table feeling better than the time I won multiple times more at Caesar�s.
Regarding cat and mouse, it�s either an ego boost early in your career or a scary reality check saying �you can�t play or work here no more�
�Why not use the game for comps and not worry so much about profit? Why take it to the nth degree of analysis when good solid play gets you an even game or even some positive EV? High/Lo plus Ill18, add comps and have some fun?"
Because I�ve long and gone extinguished fun. Blackjack up to this point to me was like brushing your teeth, a habitual pain in the ass you must do. Comps are long gone denied or frozen. I blame my ego for being caught. There was a time when Caesar�s would send a limo for me before they knew I was an advantage player. The guy would show up at my door at 8 AM two hours away from the house. Coronas with or without lime?

Play with a bigger edge or take up poker. No telling if it will remove your problem but it might change it.

Don't gamble at all... Not friends games, not the stock market, not online and definitely not in the casinoes.

There's no going back and you should consider gambler's anonymous. Anyone who says or suggests to do otherwise is doing you a huge disservice, even if unintentional.

Everybody needs a vacation; time to not think about work.
Take a vacation from blackjack for a good 6 months. The time off will serve you well to get perspective on your live and gambling in general. Also it will let you evaluate the seriousness of your problem. Can you stop for six months? You don�t REALLY know until you try. There is only one way to find out.

If you do have a problem get help immediately.
Nothing is worth more than your family.

God bless
MT

... you're doing something wrong. Advantage blackjack should never feel good. If it felt that great, YOU would have to pay THEM.

For some small percentage of people, advantage gambling might feel slightly better than a normal way of making a living. But it should never feel GOOD!

Time to quit. You've already done it. You proved counting works. Time to move on.

ETF

It takes a courageous person to admit to such an affliction, even in the anonymous Internet world. Recognizing the problem is the first step towards rehabilitation.

The true AP is at the opposite end of the spectrum from a compulsive gambler. It is likely you will never be able to be an AP again. But life is bigger than extracting money from greedy, rapacious casinos. Find other things you enjoy, and stay away from casinos and similar temptations. There are plenty of good things out there.

You have gotten some good advice in this thread. I think MGP summed it up:

There's no going back and you should consider gambler's anonymous. Anyone who says or suggests to do otherwise is doing you a huge disservice, even if unintentional.

I re-read some of your old posts going back years. I think some warning signs were there, but not so obvious as to be red flags. On August 3, 2004, in a post Why do you play blackjack? you wrote:

I enjoy the attention the pit gives me if I'm about to be backed off or barred. I feel like I am an elite player and above every other gambler. I don�t like the fact that I am denied action, but I can�t deny this situational feeling. I guess subconsciously it�s a revealing reward for all this effort and work when we are supposed to be so reticent. This is why I really play.

I strongly urge you to NEVER set foot in a casino again. If you are not there for the primary purpose of extracting money, there is no valid reason for you to be there. Stay far, far away. You will be better off for it.

Best wishes for your recovery and healing. You evidently went through a lot of effort to become a skilled blackjack player; you certainly must be capable of implementing the decision to JUST SAY NO to any further involvement with casinos or any other form of gambling.

"I am no longer the advantage player I used to be. There was a span of several years when I studied and took great pride in the game of Blackjack; it was a passion. I have compiled a large library of books, magazines, articles, and computer software. I have spreadsheets analyzing my statistical gaming history. I have written amateur computer programs verifying basic strategy, aiding my counting skills, and various academic stats. I have read and learned a considerable amount of information from many brilliant players from forums such as this. I have traveled all over the country playing. My game was counter measured and loathed at by the casino. I was a good player and my profits reflected it.

But now it has waned. I am still coming to terms of what went wrong. This is a touchy subject, but I feel that putting my ego aside and coming clean about it is the only way I am going to heal from this. Let�s say you make a simple graph of the x axis being time, and the y axis being profit. I continually demanded that line to be linearly upwards with insufficient x, especially as every session of playing. We all know that this is unsustainable, but I subconsciously refused to accept that. I lost all patience and demanded immediate gratification of earnings. I continually wanted less x and more y, perhaps exponentially. I over bet, played negative counts, played too long and often, sacrificed my health, missed work, and hurt my family and friends in the process. I became the gambler I scoffed at. I now have personally learned what the definition of compulsion really means. It�s an irrational disorder that will drive you crazy. I have realized that negative gambling is really not an intellectual problem, but rather a psychological one. Whether it�s due to genetic and or environmental factors, I don�t know for sure, but I can tell you that it can happen to the best of us.

I don�t wish this problem on my worst enemy. It is a never ending cycle of torment. I am now taking drastic measures to stop it once and for all. Peace to you all, and I wish you all the best.

Sincerely,

Dave Jay. "

The ultimate cure for AC Casinos' victims can be found in this link:
http://www.state.nj.us/lps/ge/self_exclusion.htm . So please place yourself in the CCC's self-exclusion list.

Your AC colleague had done it already. Here's his post:

"Time to call it quits

I am telling my story as a way to say goodbye and maybe help someone who may be in the same situation. I have been "working" BJ for 15 years. I have read just about every book, studied many counting, money management and tracking strategies. I have had good years, bad years and a great deal of enjoyment with this challenging, exciting and sometimes crazy game. However over the past 2-3 years I began to get caught up in the game too much. It stopped being fun and became an obsession. I have not posted much on this board but I have been here since the early days.
I know that the lack of control I have is my own fault and I do not wish to judge anyone or their ability to control their own actions.
What I want to tell everyone is that it all came to an end on Thursday.
I was in AC, had been there three times this week instead of working, anyway I had a moment where I realized that my life can no longer go on in this direction. I had been down 4-5K on the day but also up 7K at one time. Money was not the motivation for what I did next.
I walked into the security office of the casino that I was at and asked to be placed on the excluded players list.
The guard almost shit, he called the head of the dept who immediately came to the floor to meet me. He and another guy escorted me up to their office where they treated me very well. I could not believe how professional they were. They explained all of the options including a total life long exclusion from all of their properties or if I went to casino control I could be excluded from all A/C casinos.
This is the option I opted for. They even took the time to call my wife, they asked me to sit in the next room over. I was able to hear them talking to my wife. They were even nice to her.
It was very different than I though it would be.
The most ironic part of the whole story is that for the past 10 years I have worked my ass off to stay off this list only to place my self on it. I choose to quit this way because I could not do it through GA or self control. I want to wish each of the best in your future. I envy you for your ability to control your actions and play with your head.
You passion for this game is what keeps you grinding and enjoying the ride.
Good Luck and remember no 6/5
BT "

Step 1: We admitted we were powerless over gambling - that our lives had become unmanageable.

Anybody that admits he is powerless has already lost, as he is the only one with the power to overcome the problem.

Twenty-five years ago I lost 100 lbs. and kept it off. During that time and since then, whenever I had the urge to overeat, I repeated to myself that I am in control.

The only benefit a 12 step program brings is to trade one addition for another, though a less self-destructive one.

You lost your discipline. +

Even if you were the best and most successful player in the world, you have an adiction and it is a negative activity in your life. Some work-aholics who make a million per year are not happy. They need help with treating the addiction and to balance their life. You may in the future be able to play the game again, but first you have to get it and your life balanced.

You have made the first step in fixing the problem. Congrats to you for realizing your imbalance in your life. There really is much more to life than this game. The game needs to be about 80% pure job and 20% for fun. I believe every AP needs to evaluate themselves in this respect. We must all have the proper perspective of the game.

"I strongly urge you to NEVER set foot in a casino again. If you are not there for the primary purpose of extracting money, there is no valid reason for you to be there. Stay far, far away. You will be better off for it."

I have thought many times in my fantasies about moving about a 500 mile radius from the nearest felt. It will stop the car from an after work drive, weekend, or camaraderie event.

BUT, the primary purpose of BJ IMO is love for the game, not extracting money, that comes second. Once you lose the primary love, you inevitably become a degernative gambler like me. What you must learn is not to lose this love or quit.

Let's examine various significances:

With Griffin TOB, the game is a paradox from the beginning. You can summarize Peter in the first sentence. (paraphrased)

Lance Humble. I know the book is outdated. It can be silly, well, it is silly. (I learned BJ from this book, hold dear to it)

Don Schlesinger on his first chapter of BJA #567 with old school Ken Uston giving a sanctioning forward:
Don lost his meager 30 or so units (yes he drove all of the way down the Parkway for that expense) and his "heart sank" when the dealer took all his left placed bets out.

Now, if that was too much for Don, how in the hell is it not for me? How the hell do I not have a gambling problem when Peter Griffin says don�t even play the game? Why do you all of a sudden need modern computer simulation to justify things? I have copied Julian Braun�s computer work!

Why is being �steely eyed� reserved for the pro, Stanford?

LV,

I have deep respect for you and all of you that have responded. You are all my brothers in this dreadful game and share similar struggles. Once again, I wish you all the best.

Dave Jay

What are you going to do about your problem? A week ago, you said you were going to take drastic measures. Are you doing okay? Do you care to share these measures you are taking? Are you getting things right with your family? A wise man I once knew would always say, "evry day above ground is a great day!"! Hope you're healing.

"BUT, the primary purpose of BJ IMO is love for the game, not extracting money, that comes second."

This is a very telling quote. I have to ask...what's to love besides extracting money? Sitting in a smoke-filled casino with a bunch of degenerates? Getting bounced out of places like a criminal or cheater? I think LVBear and others summed up what you already know very well.

I recall various posts over the last couple of years about poker vs. blackjack. To me this was a discussion of "method of getting money #1" vs. "method of getting money #2", and the only discussion that mattered was which one wins the most money, or how to best combine the two to win the most money. Similarly, Stanford is more than happy to try to beat craps. To him, it's not about blackjack; it's about the cash. That's what an AP is.

Perhaps it ended for you when you fell in love with the game, the comps, and the lifestyle. Regardless, I think it's great that you realized your problem and are taking the right steps to solve it. I wish you all the best.

"What are you going to do about your problem? A week ago, you said you were going to take drastic measures."

I have redirected my direct deposit checks from my job to a trusted family member that doesn't live with me. It is agreed that I cannot have any direct access to that money even in emergency situations. To use that money indirectly, I must present my periodic bills (real bills that have been verified on) in person and given to, and then this trusted family member pays them all for me (kinda like a parent wiping a child's ass). I am given (as agreed) a weekly allowance of $100 for food, gas, and misc expenses. This amount is well below to stimulate any compulsive activity for me.

"Are you doing okay?"

Almost all of the time I finally feel a sense of safety, relief, and closure to this problem. There is a tiny % of the time (once a week signaling a paycheck) when I'm hit with a feeling "what the fuck are you doing you dumb asshole, this money is yours" feeling which is my addiction kicking in, but due to my measures it goes away.

"Are you getting things right with your family?"

I have spilled the beans about my problem. I have shattered my ego and embarrassed myself to them and to all of you here. What I initially thought was a such a disasterous consequence, never felt so good.

"A wise man I once knew would always say, "evry day above ground is a great day!"! Hope you're healing."

Thank you.

Dave Jay