Four Deck SCORE, Compared to Six Deck?

You are wasting mental energy.....

Just switch to Revere point count w/ace neg 2.

I know more successful shoe players employing it than any other......stop the computer runs!!

Count your blessings that you can lean on these comments; I had to figure things out way back then by myself.

Barry 

aceside,

Here's how side counting aces works in Advanced Omega II, in which the ace is assigned a side count value of +2 (this value is selected by the person who developed the count system). Let's say you're playing a 6D game, and after the first deck is dealt, the RC is +4 and you have seen only 3 aces, rather than the expected 4. Since the remainder.of the shoe has an extra ace, before you place your bet, you adjust the RC by +2, then you use this betting RC (BRC) of +4 + 2 = +6 to find the betting TC (BTC) = +6/5 = +1.2, which truncates to a BTC of +1. You bet whatever your +1 TC says, then revert back to the actual RC of +4 and resume counting. For index plays, you use the actual TC (calculated as normal from the actual RC).

Below are some more examples for a 6D game. In this table, "decks left" are the number left in the shoe, "A exp" are the number of Aces you expected to see = 4*(decks played), "adj" is 2*(A exp - Aces Seen), and the other columns are self-explanatory:

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

Hi Aceside, sorry, my explanation was not at all clear. Entering a point value for aces in the field for the Ace side count will cause the running count for betting to be adjusted by the excess or deficit of aces. Then the true count for betting is calculated based on the adjusted running count. 

Example: 1 is used as the point value for the ace side count, 4 aces are expected at the end of the first deck. If 6 aces are seen then the running count is adjusted by -2. If the running count was 5 at the end of the first deck the adjusted running count would then be 3. So true count would have been 1 (5/5) before ace adjust but would be 0 (3/5) after ace adjust (assuming flooring for rounding). The adjusted running and adjusted true counts are only used for betting.

Another example: the running count is 8 at the end of the first deck and only 2 aces were seen the adjusted running count would be 10. So the true count for betting would be 2 instead of 1.

Hope this helps. Let me know if any questions. Thanks for trying it out!

Phil

Phil, Is this the count you use for 6 dks and how long have you employed it?

I don’t use an ace side count myself in the casino, I was just adding it to the simulator. 
 

I used Zen for many years but lately have been using Hi-Opt 2.

Phil

Thank you all! I've got the exact definitions of your Ace side count parameters. Dog Hand's description is based on an Ace-neutral AO2 count; however, Phil's is on an Ace-reckoned HiLo (what I use). It seems to me both are valid; however, I'd guess that the former is relatively more effective to single and double-deck games, and ASC is a must-have in these games. In addition, this skill probably is hard to grasp. My ASC is a luxurious decoration.  Barry's comment is reasonable too, so I am going to test Phil's simulator this week. 

With the simulator you can use the ace side count with an ace neutral count as well. The ace count in the counting indices table would need to be set to 0 in this case. Also, can run the AO2 case by setting the counting indices to AO2 counting values and setting the ace side count field to 2. (The simulator just adjusts whatever count you enter with the ace side count field. If the field is blank or 0 no ace side count is used. The field defaults to blank).
 

The simulator does not currently have a way to remove the effects of an ace from an ace reckoned count and then use the modified count for strategy purposes only.

It only uses the ace side count to effect the count for betting.

Thanks,

Phil

Not a good idea commenting on side aces for shoes. Novices may foolishly conclude it as possible enhance to game. ....

And almost always more difficult to keep and use a side count I would think.

I tried the 14 count from Revere for 6 dk  and gave it up even w/spectacular pen at Jackpot corner of Sahara/LV Blvd.

DON, do you agree mostly wasted time employing the difficulty of side count aces at 4/6dk? 

Further responses leads to their wasted mental energy instead of a neg value for aces.

If so, why respond to nonsensical attempts at extracting miniscule gains w/potential errors?

I give up!

It's their loss of money, not mine!

This is not exactly accurate. Let us focus on this particular case of HiLo+ASC. When there is any index play, such as insurance@TC=+3, hit/stand 16vT@TC=+0, surrender 15vA@TC=+2,  these strategy decisions may be changed by the ASC adjustment too.  For example, the ASC adjustment on HiLo will harm the insurance EV contribution, because the adjustment is in the wrong direction.  This is a little complicated. 

So, here is the question. Do you really use the unadjusted TC count to play the shoe in your simulator even if you set a non-zero ASC parameter? 

A side count of aces for an already ace-reckoned count like Hi-Lo, in a 6-deck shoe game, is, obviously useless for betting purposes (you've ALREADY counted the ace!) and worth extremely little for the insurance decision. As that is by far the most important of the strategic departures, it is highly unlikely that keeping a side of aces for any of the other plays mentioned will convey any more meaningful edge.

Don

It's not very complicated to keep a side count of aces with Hi-Lo. If you do it correctly, you can win an additional 5.5% to 6.5% in shoes. For example: 6D,S17,DOA,DAS,SPA1,SPL3,NS,4.5/6

Hi-Lo SCORE

1-12: 21.15

1-16: 25.00

Hi-Lo/A SCORE

1-12: 22.53

1-16: 26.42

Sincerely,

Cac

For Hi-Lo, it's much better to count "sevens" than to count "aces". The following is a link where I explain the differences:

https://www.blackjacktheforum.com/showthread.php?44960-HI-LO-with-a-side-count-of-SEVENS&p=304256&viewfull=1#post304256

Sincerely,

Cac

What is the 14 Count? 

The simulator uses a non-zero ASC parameter for betting only. The running count is adjusted and the true count is calculated from the adjusted running count and used only for the betting decision. The unadjusted running and true count is used for strategy and insurance.

If the ASC is blank or zero the simulator uses the running and true count unadjusted for betting, strategy, and insurance decisions.

Thanks,

Phil

Well, then, this is surely worth almost nothing at all. Why would you side count aces for BETTING when you already count the ace for betting in the primary count?? You're now double counting it. what sense does that make?

Don

The side count was put in the simulator with the thought of it being used with Ace neutral counts. So for simulating Hi-Opt1 or 2 and other ace neutral counts which should be useful to test. But there is nothing that prevents using or testing the Ace side count with Ace reckoned counts. One can input any count values they would like in the counting indices table in the simulator and any value for the ace side count. If used this way with hi-lo it may overstate the betting significance of Ace as you say double counting it. It could help with Zen, but in that case one may be better off using an Ace neutral count if doing a side count anyway.

Thanks,

Phil

Looks like it does help with hi-lo though, just saw these numbers yesterday and already forgot when writing my last comment 😀.

Thanks,
Phil