Comps, tokes, and trained seals

A recent article in the local Las Vegas newspaper mentioned the rumor that the new Wynn hotel will be very restrictive on comps. So restrictive as to require many hours of black action to qualify for anything.

Players have acted like trained seals automatically toking for too many years. Why bother toking if there is a decreasingly smaller and smaller benefit? Many still do. After a reasonable playing session more and more players requesting a comp get an excuse and are treated like beggars. Why give money to their employees when they give you almost nothing in return? Toking adds up to quite a bit. This should be the view of all non counters for certain. Counters as well should adopt this attitude. Those who think it keeps off the heat have little to go on. Heat in the bigger games has nothing to do with toking. In the smaller games, it also has overrated value to your longevity as they are more concerned with your results and how well you play. In today�s game, most of the time players in question are being skill checked by computer and other methods. Toking means nothing, nor does dealer opinions of your play.

Even years ago, I used to get sneered at frequently because I was not a large toker to the dealers and only gave the girl a $1 for a "free" bottled water. I gave up toking long ago when even red chip tokes at $300 or $500 minimum games often didn't even qualify for a thank you. Where else would many of these ungrateful, mostly uneducated people get these amounts in any other job? I feel much better giving that money to the guys outside who may need a meal. They ALWAYS say thank you. I hear other players complain more and more that even black action for a half hour does not even get them a buffet. It is getting to be ridiculous.

Additionally, many do not also realize that many hotels (such as the Venetian) actually put in their �comp value� ratio the skill of the players. Being thought to be a reasonable player further hurts your ability to get comped. Keep your money, stop toking, and feel better about everything.

I'm not even going to respond to this content. Why? We've had 2 long discussions already this month alone about tipping. Now I see why you got banned from green chip. No one is going to change your mind about anything, and you just try and start conversations to get in unconstructive arguments. Save this thread for next month.

...dealers would be paid a decent hourly rate as opposed to the
typical minimum wage, and that toking would not be allowed.
But this is what I heard through my dealer's school years ago.

chances are, you'll qualify for RFB at Wynn's new place. Undoubtedly comps will be tough for the first 6 months....but that's all about supply and demand.

I mention this since the recent Las Vegas Review Journal article on Wynn's hotel mentioned what may happen when vitually nobody gets comped. This is something we have never seen before. What happens when there is no reason for a player's rating card. What will they do to track players? What high roller will play there if the other hotels are comping them? And many other questions.

I recognize you as just another loser Pink Chipper from your whining about Green Chip!

For the 10,000th time, here we go again: I was banned from Green chip for confronting the whiners on a non blackjack page, not for anything I said about Blackjack.

Stanford Wong said in his email that he was concerned about "selling more green chips". He left out anything about doing what was right. Also he has refused to show anyone the pages in question which would show who was right. Besides that, who cares what you think?

Remember: Use protection at the next Pink Chippers' "get together!"

Chappy: I will defend my positon to the bitter end against those politically correct green and pink chippers! If Wong would only open the private paying membership site to the non-paying public, I would be vendicated! But NO! Wong makes business decisions instead of Chappy decisions! That proves my point!

I work in a Strip Casino and can confirm that is incorrect. The dealers looking to move to Wynn were worried about networking with former Golden Nugget employees, not wages.

One of my work friends proudly calls dealing the best part time job you can have. He makes about $50K and purposefully works about 30 hours a week; he leaves early nearly every shift. You can't make $50K a year at $5.55 per hour.

To eliminate toking Wynn would have to pay the dealers between $30-$40 p/h to equal the estimated $60-$80K Strip dealers make. From a casino standpoint dealers, bartenders, and cocktail servers are backbone employees, but all make the lowest hourly wages because of tipping or tokes and earn more money than most salary, non-executive, employees make.

Most dealers are not paid min wage. Only a handful of house pay minimum wage to dealers.

No cookies, working in a strip casino you should know that barmen and cocktail waitress' are union employess and in no house that I know of do they make min wage. From what I hear $7-15/hour is normal.

Also , at the moment there is only one house that makes $80/yr, a couple in the $70-80, and the majority are on less than $50.

I agree with you Chappy, toking the dealers or tipping the waitresses is for the uninformed. The casinos nationwide are raking in record profits and therefore I feel no sorrow for their employees.
If they want to complain they should complain to their employers not
the players. I play mostly one or two days a week in Louisiana and usually walk with 1k. I always get offered free buffets or hotel rooms but its nothing to get excited about. The buffets make you fat and the hotel rooms are not much better than Motel 6.

Bes: You clearly didn�t read MY post or pay any attention to Musician�s original post!

First, I NEVER posted that union workers, e.g. bartenders and cocktail servers, make minimum wages! As a former member of Local 165, I�m familiar with the union scale for both Strip and Downtown casinos and the estimated annual pay. I also have experience and knowledge of non-union pay and salary, but that is not pertinent to the thread.

Second, the dealer pay information I posted, discounting hyperbole, jealously, and modesty, is accurate based on personal knowledge from my casino. Not only have I seen the paychecks, containing both the hourly wages and toke pay, I�ve also observed the toke counting. The estimated pay is from conversations from several sources, dealers, dual rate workers, (dealers/PB), and former dealers who are full time PBs and simple multiplication.

Thirdly, non tipping/toking, casino employees, e.g. pit bosses, teamsters, porters, and security often make more in hourly wages than bartenders, cocktail servers, and dealers, but their annual pay lags because of the amount of tip/toke money.

Lastly, the thread was about a rumor that Musician heard that dealer toking would not be permitted at Wynn. Did you have any pertinent information concerning the thread subject?

I recently spoke to a dealer who will be leaving our casino for the newer pastures at Wynn. She explained the "no toking" policy. There was never an intention to eliminate dealer toking, but a plan by Steve Wynn to eliminate toke counting.

His plan was to play all dealers a flat $250 in tokes for each 8-hour shift, reduced for early outs. The house would retain all tokes collected. This plan would be "advantageous to the dealers" since they would be receiving a set and easily budgeted salary and eliminate the seasonal variances in tokes. Of course, the house would have kept any amount above the $250 a day rate, easily exceeded by the expected high roller clientele and the projected customer volume; if Steve Wynn "builds it, they will come".

My source is reliable. While she obtained her position through "who and what she knew", her source is well placed within the table games department. Needless to say the policy was scrapped when they realized that they could not attract the quality of dealers they wanted by "screwing them" right out of the gate.�

As patrons find out that Wynn keeps the tokes, no one would have toked anything and Wynn would have been stuck with that $250/day toke bill.

Some casinos are less than half that and some are about that anyway. Doing tokes like that would actually be and Internal Accounting problem. The only way to get away with that is to "guarantee" a $250 day PLUS overages. Otherwise, true, there is NO reason to toke. The dealers would even tell the players not to bother