Cheating Casino

What would you do if you came across these conditions:
1. A Panama casino offered 2 to 1 any BJ every afternoon... been burned in 3 days.
2. A casino offered 1.4% chios rolling rebate on CSMs BJ... 3 Japanese played for 2 years already... burned in 8 months.
3. A Macau casino offered 1.5% chips rolling rebate on CSMs BJ, a big player betting HK$60K has played for years already, buend in 6 weeks.
4. A Cambodia casino offered 1.2% rebate on its shoe game BJ... burned in 5 days.
In all above conditions, one or several counters played continuously some time even 24 hours a day and burned those games. If you play for several days then leave for even a week, the game is gone. Are you sure you would leave the game alone???

Seldom does the argument to take it easy on casinos pay the most dividends. AP's competition is not just the casinos but also other AP's all trying to get a piece of the pie. There is only so much EV that any given casino is willing to give up. Slow playing any opportunity is a recipe for disaster because you never know when one of your AP competitors is going to have the big positive flux that kills the game.

I agree with BJTraveller completely.

As an addendum, Players who don't push the limits will never discover which places take big action like champs and which don't. You can't simply assume, like BJayCobbson does in his earlier post, that all casinos are intolerant or only typically tolerant. I know a few places in the U.S. that will let you spread 1x$50 to 2x$3000 for days and the only thing you'll hear from the pitboss are questions about which restaurant you want to eat at that night.

"that all casinos are intolerant or only typically tolerant".. I never said that. I've also seen games where the player spread just as wide with not only the floor person watching, but also the shift manager watching him stack up purple piles galore, over a period of at least two hours before I had to go on my way. In fact, just last week in a non-strip casino. I know these people, and not a peep from them. I agree many floor people, shift managers and even casino managers are brain dead when it comes to AP or maybe they are just in a state of shock when they are getting raped.

You read my posts from the wrong perspective. Believe me, I am on your side.

Cobbson

fidning Bigplayer sitting with me on BOTTOM OF THE BARREL...: )

Have we learned nothing since we let them start to vote? LOL I do appologize for my ignorance. I honestly had no idea how wide-spread casinos were. Simce my awakening I have really enjoyed reading about gambling world wide. I've had some bad days at BJ but never had to spend 76 days in jail for playing it. I'll never feel bad about losing a few thousand dollars again.

What you say applies to big well known casinos with a lot of action but the good conditions are often in small remote places where the management tries to attract customers. Here it would be foolish to hit them for say 15k in one day. Better to cook them on small fire for years.
If you hit them too badly there is also a danger that they will pass your name on to other casinos who will then take countermeasures.

Francis Salmon

Thought you were saying couldn't play A game because of the casino, now I see you're saying that after 6-8hrs your A game really isn't your "A" game anymore.

Sorry about that.

BP

Slow playing good casino games will make you less money in the long run and leave money on the table that your AP competitors will take from you. You will make less money and it will take you more time to make it. Better to make $16K in one day than $2K per day over four 2 day trips. You never know when your gravy train is going to vanish, your game could be gone before you get in your four trips. Money in your hand today is worth much more than money down Casinos being milked will undoubtedly wonder why their hold is so low and eventually bring in some outsider who can muck up your works. I've seen it happen again and again, a casino decides to put in a 2 deck game and deals 80% and takes all kinds of action then suddenly one or two regular players get lucky and kill the casino with a big + flux and then a new casino manager shows up and the house cleaning begins and the penetration drops to 50% or the two deck game goes away completely.

You can't expect people who play BJ for a living to leave your little goldmine alone. There are pro's in every part of the country who understand that they have to get the EV while the casino is dishing it out. If the casino was offering a 2:1 BJ promo would you milk it? You know that eventually it has to go away, it's the nature of things. 2:1 blackjack promo's simply cannot survive and great games can't survive either unless the casino is willing to toss everyone as soon as they bet real money and move their bets around in the slightest. Think of a great BJ game just like a 2:1 promo. You know that a double deck game with great rules dealt to the bottom simply cannot survive so why bother trying to conserve it. You will never conserve it long enough or predictably enough to make up for the money you leave on the table.

Regarding being reported to other casinos, sometimes it happens but it's really only a short term problem. Once you know casinos communicate you know to avoid the neighbors until the heat dies down, you simply play elsewhere while they're waiting on you to show up. Eventually someone else gets their attention and you're forgotten. Except for the special cases of big team play, known players, hole carders, and actual criminals there are few casinos who report to Griffin anymore for fear of lawsuits and Griffin is much more selective about what they add to their database wanting multiple confirmations from casinos that have a good reputation for accurate skills checks. (i.e., your little casino in Podunk Michigan has little chance of being taken seriously by anyone). The only exception to this are the Native American casinos who have their own national database and tend to accept reports from any of their members regardless of accuracy or member casinos competence. (which is usually close to zero).

There aren't that many big action BJ players or teams anymore that you need to worry about. Most of the biggest teams don't even play pitch games because they can't get the money down and can't factor in preferential shuffling and cover into their win-rates. It's the casinos job to protect their games, not the AP's job. If you want to protect your casino's games you should go to work for them. It's the AP's job to win money.

Your comments are obviously referring to the USA where the number of APs is much higher than in any other part of the world.
In Europe, during my whole career I have come across a dozen of counters maximum and not all of them were really APs. So unless I burn a good game myself, I can be pretty sure that it will still be there tomorrow. I don't speak about BJ 2:1 promos which are by their nature short-lived . No casino can give its players a 2%-advantage over an extended period.
I'm thinking of slightly positive games off the top and I wouldn't say that I'm slow playing them. In most cases I exploit the table max and if I have to travel far, I put in as much hours I can. The only limitation I impose myself is to move on once I have won a considerable amount and I revisit them a few months later. That way I shared a goldmine with a Britsh AP for years but since they have brought in CSMs he threw in the towel and it's all for myself now.
Among the casinos I visit, I try to maintain a fair distribution and when I have hit one of them too hard I won't return there for a while.

Francis Salmon

How do you get any advantage out of a CSM?

* Full ES
* Rebates
* No putting cards into machine immediately
...

Have no idea what "ES" represents.

By rebates are you referring to comps?

Should appreciate further info on the timing and meaning of when cards are placed in the machine.

Thanks.

*ES as Don's post, no hole card and player may surrender even against dealer's Ace. Casinos offer full ES allow players having positive off-the-top games. There WERE many casinos at Moscow offered full ES games.
*Rebate not comps. Some casinos offer cash rebate through chips rolling. If rebate is high enough, player have positive off-the-top advantages and can win from CSMs in the long run. Many Macau casino offerED cash rebate on BJ CSMs before. My friend won 5.2 M HK$ in 2007 from one in 6 weeks when it offered 1.5% rebate on chips roller. Rolling chips is players buying junket chips with cash, bet junket chips receiving cash chips whne win. Casinos pay cash rebate based on chips rolled.
*Some casinos don't put dealt cards immediately into CSM allow players count those cards playing. For example, if the dealer keeps puts back cards until there are about one deck on a 4D CSM, it is like playing a bad penetration(25%) shoe.
Don't trouble asking which casinos offer such cSMs now, I won't tell you.

I know. Maybe I should put LOL at the end to make sure everyone knows it was a joke.

Again, for reveremans's sake, this is a joke. This post soed not reflect the opinions of this board or the people whi run it. If it offends you we appologize. If our appolgy is not accepted get over yourself of get the f*** out.

a great sense of humor, you don't take jokes very well.

I lost 33 pounds during my jail time at Nepal... if you like to lose some weight...

Francis Salmon: "If you hit them too badly there is also a danger that they will pass your name on to other casinos who will then take countermeasures."

countermeasures, literally ;)