bs charges

I sauntered my drunken degenerate ass to the Taj Mahal this winter. I had about a thousand in cash on me. I sat down to a green BJ table during prime weekend hours, facing the main bar where a partially clad girl sometimes dances in front of. It was the multi deck. I bought in a fifth of my amount. There was a woman seated to the left of me the entire time. The game faired normally, and I was down a few units. Twice, the woman got up and asked me to look after her chips; I obliged and there were no problems. Now it was my turn. I got up to take a leak. I took my meager remaining chips with me (still from first buy in). I went to the restroom and was absent for 5 -10 minutes. I had trouble finding my spot back, but I found it - same dealer and woman - it was crowded. There was a lamer on my spot and a stack of chips around $200 worth. I ASSUMED THEY WERE MINE. The woman and dealer did not make any objections to my then seated possession of it. I played with the chips with the dealer and woman. It felt like it was more than an hour, but I could be wrong. I lost them all, and then bought in for the remainder (~$800). I left the table and went towards the boardwalk door, no problems. I was out on the boardwalk shortly and some security guard comes up to me and, well, basically, asks me to go back to the establishment, takes me to the interrogation office, and then I'm arrested hour(s) later. I was charged with 4th degree theft.

My question is, if you would serve such a jury, that you'd find me innocent or guilty of such theft?

Dave Jay

The nice part about juries is that, regardless of the law and all facts of the case, they have the ability (and *obligation*) to find people not guilty if they feel it's a more just outcome.

In this case, if it was well established that it was an honest mistake (easily within the abilities of a good lawyer), I'd find not guilty. Particularly when the "thief" was sitting there playing for a while, and making no effort to make off with the chips.

(Everyone should know about "jury nullification" as well)

That's just for me. As for what some other jury who may be clueless about justice, and casinos, it's pretty unpredictable.

Play the tapes from the eye in the sky, it never lies. Case closed.

No tapes? Destruction of evidence.

Ian

Now it was my turn. I got up to take a leak. I took my meager remaining chips with me (still from first buy in). I went to the restroom and was absent for 5 -10 minutes. I had trouble finding my spot back, but I found it - same dealer and woman - it was crowded. There was a lamer on my spot and a stack of chips around $200 worth. I ASSUMED THEY WERE MINE.

Why? You just said you TOOK your remaining chips with you.

I was out on the boardwalk shortly and some security guard comes up to me and, well, basically, asks me to go back to the establishment, takes me to the interrogation office, and then I'm arrested hour(s) later. I was charged with 4th degree theft.

What in the world possessed you to go back IN to the interrogation room with them? You never go anywhere with security goons.

My question is, if you would serve such a jury, that you'd find me innocent or guilty of such theft?

That is not the question. These are the better ones:

1. Why did you take your chips with you? You already stated you "watched" your neighbor's chips when she took a couple of breaks, couldn't you have asked her AND the dealer to watch yours?

2. Since you DID take your chips with you, wouldn't/shouldn't you ASSUME those chips are NOT yours and they belong to another player?

and lastly

3. Why did you agree to go back INSIDE the casino to be interrogated?

Personally, I ALWAYS leave my chips at the table when going to a RR break. Dealer always puts a lammer on the spot and watches my chips. I have NEVER had one chip stolen in the process. I will take the larger denom chips with me, but the rest I always leave them...sometimes for long periods of time...when I come back they are still there and my spot is still available.

I would NEVER go anywhere with security whether inside or outside of a casino...if outside I'd just tell them to bug off and walk away. They have no authority to restrict your movement outside and if inside they only can detain you until the police arrives providing there is "probable cause".

If I were on the jury, it would sound to me like you tried to take advantage of a situation where it was very crowded and your explanation if caught could be explained away since you were sitting there beforehand. I'd find you guilty.

Regards,
PM

I could care less what "really" happened here. Whether or not you deliberately played another's chips is immaterial. What is, is the way you acted after the fact.

If you ARE deemed guilty in court you have no one to blame but yourself. If you would NOT have gone back inside the casino to be interrogated, you'd have never been arrested; therefore, this question of yours would have been a moot point.

What I hope that you and others that read this learns is that you don't go anywhere with security guards for any reason, voluntarily. Just tell them you are leaving and head for the door, if you're inside. If outside, just keep walking. Let THEM "physically" detain you and NEVER admit to anything. If they "physically" detain you...then you can sue them either criminally or civilly (or both) later. It will all be recorded on tape.

My question to you...do you THINK you are guilty? And why/why not?

Regards,
PM

To quote the whale who would not play against Mindplay at the Hilton years ago, "I do not know what is is but it seems hokey to me."

I would find you guilty. You admit taking your chips with you and then you go and find a seat (yours earlier maybe, but no longer yours since it has someone else's chips). And then you play those chips knowing that you have yours in your pocket.
This would sound like a pretty lame excuse to any DA and to any jury, in my opinion.
Then you leave the casino and voluntarily go back inside with security? If you were that dense that you thought you had done nothing wrong, you still should know that going back with security can only bring some form of harm to you.
Finally, if everything you state is true, you did not know if the chips were yours or not and you will follow security wherever, you have absolutely no business inside a casino where alertness is a major necessity. As a matter of fact, based upon AC's reputation, you have no business being anywhere in that city.
Stay at home, double lock your door and perhaps you will stay out of trouble.

as far as possible/practicle. First, I hope this is a hypothetical. It's very strange but I was thinking about you earlier today. I was wondering how you have been doing. I know you were staying away from casinos for a while. I don't know why I thought of you, but to then see this post blows me away. Back to your question:

1. Get a good lawyer. This needs defining and I'm possibly not the best person to do so. But I will give you my 2 cents below.

2. Do not base your decision on taking a chance with a jury based on posters from this site. We are not impartial. We will judge you harshly because we think we know better and shame on you... We are at least partially knowledgable of casino law, we are familiar with AP characteristics, we may judge you far more harshly because we view this act as carelessness that an AP should never do, you even got reprimanded (possibly deservedly but who are we to say - maybe you've done it this way for years and it's your act) for drinking etc... A jury of "average" ploppies may feel really sorry for you. Maybe it's on tape that you offered to pay back the $200 on the spot because it was just an accident. This could play well to a jury. See #1 above.

3. How long did it take you to lose the $800. Where was this mystery player who never came back for their chips? Maybe it was a casino plant to frame you. After all, why didn't they tap you sooner!?

4. Do not state any more telling details on this or other sites. Rhetorically, are you guilty, did you do it knowingly, can they prove it because you admitted guilt, did they hook you up to a mind reading machine so they can prove your guilt in court.......

5. Good attorney: one that doesn't just go through the motions - show up on court day, ask for forgiveness, etc... They have to be passionate about YOUR case or you need to move on. A friend of mine was arrested soley based on a false statement of a local citizen. The courtroom laughed at the pre-trial because the plaintiff was an idiot and couldn't tell a straight story. Tough luck - probable cause was found and it proceeded. After months of waiting, it finally goes to trial and at the last minute the jerk wouldn't drop his accusation. My friend could now face a jury trial and go to prison if found guilty or plead guilty to a lesser charge, which he did. No reason he should live with this on his record but the attorneys did nothing. They filed necessary paper work, showed up in court, all the while knowing exactly what was going to happen. Start with general questions and then get specific to see what the attorney is going to actually do for you. If you don't see and feel passion from them backed up by action, find a new attorney!

What about Bob N???

Good luck if this is true. Don't back down until the last minute and only then if you see no other way out. It's good to get our feedback on guilty or not if you plan to use this as a way to plan for issues you will face, but be careful about making your decision based on this jury.

I had virtually the same thing happen to me.
It was in another state, on an Indian Reservation.
It was for considerably more money.
I was not arrested, but I was "trespassed"

1. Why did you take your chips with you? You already stated you "watched" your neighbor's chips when she took a couple of breaks, couldn't you have asked her AND the dealer to watch yours?

I have played this game over 10 years on a nearly consistent basis. I have never made it a routine to take or leave chips on a table. This is due to whim and environmental factors. The fact that my neighbor didn�t look after me adds to the irony of it all.

2. Since you DID take your chips with you, wouldn't/shouldn't you ASSUME those chips are NOT yours and they belong to another player?

No, because when I said I took my chips, it was in retrospect. At the time, I believed I didn�t. I frequently have a chip amount that�s well over in question, and the amount in question is quite trivial to me.

3. Why did you agree to go back INSIDE the casino to be interrogated?

Because I am innocent of the situation and when a security guard asks me to do something I�ll do it and cooperate.

Let's say I didn't go with the security guard. Then maybe I'm arrested 1/2 mile down the boardwalk. I don't see the significance.

Let me tell you something, how probable is it for someone to place down $200 worth of chips while I'm gone at my empty spot for 5 minutes taking a leak and not be present while I'm back???? He decides to leave and not play with his chips there???

Let's say I didn't go with the security guard. Then maybe I'm arrested 1/2 mile down the boardwalk. I don't see the significance.

Maybe you could be struck by lightning while walking on the boardwalk, too!

You opened yourself up to arrest by going BACK INSIDE the casino with them. Outside they have absolutely NO jurisdiction to do anything to you. If they grab you and forcibly take you inside then you have a lawsuit against them. By going back in, anything that happens/happened to you is totally your own doing.

Personally, I don't buy your story. Best get you a good lawyer.

Regards,
PM

I have played this game over 10 years on a nearly consistent basis. I have never made it a routine to take or leave chips on a table. This is due to whim and environmental factors. The fact that my neighbor didn�t look after me adds to the irony of it all.

2. Since you DID take your chips with you, wouldn't/shouldn't you ASSUME those chips are NOT yours and they belong to another player?

No, because when I said I took my chips, it was in retrospect. At the time, I believed I didn�t. I frequently have a chip amount that�s well over in question, and the amount in question is quite trivial to me.

I don't buy your story here, sorry. As ihate17 states...sounds "hokey". Either you were messed up on drugs or totally inebriated to not know the difference between leaving money there or taking it with you. Most players DO know whether they leave chips or not when going to the bathroom, they don't do this in a haphazard manner...they either take them or they don't.

3. Why did you agree to go back INSIDE the casino to be interrogated?

Because I am innocent of the situation and when a security guard asks me to do something I�ll do it and cooperate.

OK, this one will get you far in life! Trust the cops and security goons, they always do what's right.

Where did it get you "trusting" security? Again, if anything I'm trying to get through with this story...don't go anywhere or do anything they want you to, voluntarily!

Look, I'm not here to say all of this isn't true, it's just hard to comprehend your position from my viewpoint...perhaps all of this is real and you were drunk and not really aware of everything that was going on. If so, I suggest you get help with whatever addiction you have and stay out of casinos...

Regards,
PM