Bet Spread

At Foxwoods, I believe the chips have tiny magnets or electric circuits inside (similar to security devices on CDs) and sensors in the betting circles. There's a touch screen attached to each felt and a card swiper attached to each one. The pit boss fiddles with it if you move seats at the same table, and I've also seen a pit boss use it to check how long someone who left a marker to reserve their spot had been away. Even if the computer can keep track of bets perfectly, someone would have to keep the count to detect APs. But this make it a lot harder to hide your winnings.
As for checks play, black chips always cause the dealer to call out to the PB, but green, sometimes $400 worth, gets no reaction.

I play the hi/lo. I like it's simplicity and power. However, AOII is a very powerful count and I haven't decided to invest time in it yet. In fact, I'm on the last chapter of Bryce Carlson's book. As for the money, it would be a dream to consistently make money on the other side of the table. But I know I'm not ready as I make a few mistakes here and there on Casino Verite and I haven't gotten all my indices down pat.

Ofcourse I'll share whatever information I know will help. And if you didn't know dealers make pretty good money. Some make up to $70,000 a year.

You wrote -

At Foxwoods, I believe the chips have tiny magnets or electric circuits inside (similar to security devices on CDs) and sensors in the betting circles.

My response -

Wrong. Foxwoods does not use that technology. Too expensive to implement at the present time.

You wrote -

There's a touch screen attached to each felt and a card swiper attached to each one. The pit boss fiddles with it if you move seats at the same table, and I've also seen a pit boss use it to check how long someone who left a marker to reserve their spot had been away.

My response -

Foxwoods used to use centralized terminals in each pit to track players. This was time-consuming and took pits/floors away from the playing tables. When prices dropped dramatically on the thin-line, LCD monitors with the card-swiping attachment, Foxwoods placed monitors on each BJ table. This allows the pit/floor to perform player sign-ins, table-position tracking (used to sign-out players when they leave a table), tracking of buy-ins or chip-ins, chip-ups, and table-history monitoring by just scanning the screen at the table. A better use of person-power. It also allows supervisors to execute checks quickly and facilitates pit/floor change-overs on breaks.

You wrote -

Even if the computer can keep track of bets perfectly, someone would have to keep the count to detect APs. But this make it a lot harder to hide your winnings.
As for checks play, black chips always cause the dealer to call out to the PB, but green, sometimes $400 worth, gets no reaction.

My response -

Your current playing style and winnings or your past history (revealed when your player card is swiped) key scrutiny of you as an AP at Foxwoods. They can always review the security tapes to confirm their suspicions and to check if you are squirreling-away chips (which they sometimes do when their pit/floor 'chip-checks' reveal 'missing' chips). At most tables at Foxwoods, only tables at $25 minimums or below have the dealer call checks-play when chips above green are played and usually that is called only the first time a particular player plays that chip color. For tables above $25 minimum, the first time you play a chip color above that of your starting action (black ($100), purple ($500), orange ($1000), or grey ($5000), the dealer would call black-action, purple-action, orange-action, or grey-action, as appropriate). Once notified that a player is playing above a 'table-minimum' chip color, it is the pit/floor's job to track the action. Again, since the pits/floors at Foxwoods do not wander from their three tables to record player information, they can follow table play pretty closely.

The Pit Bosses usually keep track of how many purple or blacks are out and who they went to. Exactly. If you have black they will always come up to the table and examine how much you have left almost every 5 to 10 minutes. They don't bother too much with the green. It can very from boss to boss. But if you have a lot of green they will keep an eye on your stack and usually check the rack in between shuffles for fills or just to see how much you've won or lost.

did it. On every hand the dealer peeked & told whether to hit or stay. Nice game!

Yes your right. How does one let the dealer know without giving himself away? First, I think in every Casino there are dealers who bend the rules themselves probably due to laziness. When I put the cut card in it's usually at 1.5 and not 2 decks. Anyway, after playing at a certain place you should be able to pick up on a few of those dealers.

But to make the dealer give you more penetration is a straight up challenge. Because I deal at a Casino, I hear all the dumb comments and superstitious beliefs.

Thus, whatever you say I think should sound superstitious. And you may have to work it.

For example, lets say your sitting at a table with two other players. The dealer is shuffling. Maybe turn to the next guy and ask "so do you gamble here often?" Whatever he says he'll probably ask you the same question in return and you should respond with "no, not really I gamble at another place (name of place) and I like it there better" and hopefully the dealer will ask you why but if he or she doesn't your fellow player will or should. And thats when you can say "I like the environment...etc..but those dealers put the cut card at about 1.5 to 1 deck... which I really like because when the shoe is on a hot streak we all get to last longer and ofcourse if it's cold from the getgo we can always leave."

Say something of that sort, doesn't have to be exactly the same and hopefully the dealer will pick up on it... but lets say she doesn't.

So the cut card is at 2 decks right now and the shoe is good and plus. Your winning and then the cut card comes out. Maybe make a little reaction or comment that you wished it hadn't been so soon. Then you should look at the dealer throw her a nickel and maybe say "that shoe was great but I wished the luck streak could go a little longer."

I personally think something of this sort should work. Maybe get to know the dealer a little as well before you start proposing for penetration. I hope my advice and insight has helped. But I have a feeling that most of you already know what I've told you.

And to answer the question of how often should tips occur. It kind of breaks down like this. If your winning we expect to make something. On your streak slide a nickel bet out for us. You only have to do this once a shoe in my opinion. I look to make at least 10 dollars per table I visit. So if we win the bet then it's ten right there. Some gamblers tip the dealer heavily when there doing good. I don't recommend playing next to a heavy tipper if you want better penetration. The dealers focus will not be on you it will be on him. But you can try and pull the act I just described to you and ask the heavy tipper those questions. He just might feel the same way. If he does any smart dealer should give better penetration.

I'm sure you all have your opinions on how to go about this. Again, I hope my thoughts have helped.

On every hand the dealer peeked & told whether to hit or stay.

The dealer even peeked when he/she did not have a 10 or Ace?

Regardless, I would RUN AWAY from a cheating dealer like this. It would be easy for you to be charged with cheating by colluding with the dishonest dealer.

I have no sympathy for the casino, certainly, but a dealer this dishonest is a criminal.

watched carefully on a later visit

Regarding your comment:

"And to answer the question of how often should tips occur. It kind of breaks down like this. If your winning we expect to make something. On your streak slide a nickel bet out for us."

Andersen suggests rather than putting a nickel out to play for the dealer, just top the player's bet and let the dealer know that bet is theirs, then when they win, the player PAYS OFF the dealer and leaves that bet for another round. His theory is that you get the dealer more involved in the game and allows for better penetration, etc., not to mention on a long streak, your investment in the dealer will be minimal.

How would dealer's react to such strategy, in your opinion?

No more so than the NGC, by allowing the casinos to change the rules of long established games.

So I guess we have a situation of: The fox watching the chicken coupe. ?????????

I think we need to be the dog that watches the fox that watches the chickens. ............ Gaaah, I'm sounding like Yogi Beara.

Stealth Bomber

Thanks for the more accurate info. I might as well point out that tables minimums greater than $25 minimums at Foxwoods have "no mid-shoe entry" policies, so they aren't for players who prefer to Wong in to high counts. And obviously no one cares about black chips being played at $1,000 tables. I just find it curious that dealers don't announce large bets in green, and thought it would be worthwhile for others who don't like heat to know.

Economist,

With reference to your comments about the use of magnetic checks, I posted the following at AdvantagePlayer.com on the Main Page on September 17:

The "Grind Cashino Coushuttup" in "Kinda", LA has been using RFID-tagged chips in its high-limit room for at least a year now. Just before the dealer deals, she presses a "Start Game" button on the table, at which point the sensors under each betting spot "read" the wager. This info is sent to a computer that records the wager and keeps track of average wager (along with other info, I'm sure, such as total action, etc.). This system has allowed them to dispense entirely with the hand-written rating cards that they use at the regular tables on the floor. So far, only green chips and above are tagged, and only the chips used in the high-limit room. However, they plan to implement the system throughout the casino.

Somewhere, Eric Blair is smiling.

Dog Hand

The no mid-shoe entry policy is not in effect for all Foxwoods tables above $25/minimum. Also, you can always wong-in by back-betting (if acceptable to the player) on any table at Foxwoods, whether no mid-shoe entry or not.

A technique used for years by some teams, through-out the world, has been to have a minimum-bet player using BS at a table notify a big-bet player to wong-in behind a different player (to help hide the connection between the team players).

Sometimes, single, minimum-bet players are posted on several tables and a big-bet player(s) meanders from table-to-table, pausing to watch a couple of hands - no signal, move-on. This technique also allows the big-bet player to immediately return to a table, when a signal is sent, and make a bet, since he/she had been 'involved' in the table and could then be betting based on a sudden 'impulse'.

WHat is coming to this world when Frank stanton says something that is logical!!! Its time! The end of the world is near! Just be careful Franks old lady may be near!!!! Next John Patrick will actually write a book about advantage play and there really be an advantage!

That is a fine strategy as well. I actually forgot about that. I had one guy place a nickel bet for me and we won maybe 12 straight. He also ended up adding another nickel on top of the nickel already there halfway through. It was a nice payoff. Actually that guy was pretty funny he said this out loud "when the count is really minus I don't like to hit 16!" but he definetly wasn't a counter just a half smart one. The pit knew it too as they didn't watch our game that much.

Also,if you place a bet for us maybe ask the dealer if you have a stiff hand how would he or she play it. Since dealers should know Basic Strategy they'll probably recommend a play that you would make as well. So when they say hit or stand or double and it's what you would do then do it. If you bust they should feel sorry for recommending that play and might be more willing to give you that penetration you like.

What'd you do, get board over on the other side like me? I,m having withdrawls 'cause I havn't gotten to sharpen my claws lately on the game. Too much other crap to have to do. No end in site either. So, how often do you get to play anyhow? Are you close to the casinos?

Stealth B

I'm not sure I'd consider playing behind a stranger the same thing as wonging in. How do you know they'll play BS correctly, much less make the right plays for the count?
Also I'm curious what you think about the high limit tables. The Newport room has been pretty empty when I go, but I try not to go at peak times. Have you checked out the Stargazer's lounge?