Any successfull counters try on-line BJ?

After a decade of success with land based blackjack I was seriously thinking about taking a shot at on-line blackjack.
I would like to make the headache and pain in the ass of on-line gambling worth my time by breaking my bank and using a generous amount in order to win at a higher rate before I'm so called black-balled from on-line bonus offers.

John May, who's opinion I do value more so than his numbers has said the EV of on-line BJ will far exceed the EV of land based card counters at the benefit of little or no risk. The problem is you must be willing to accept a good chance of not getting paid or penalized,therefore I plan on a diversity of my bank. After browsing the internet message boards for weeks trying to weed out the spammers and the unfair dodgy on-line casinos my X-list is growing at a fast pace and ready to fall off the page, this is very discouraging. My lust for generous takings offered by on-line casinos must be really getting to me. For the moment I stand at the crossroads.

Would like to here some comments from land based counters and if they are enjoying a consistent win-rate or having good experiences with on-line gambling,thanks.

I am a true counter, but because of the distance to a good 1 or 2 deck game, or even an 8 deck game which is 1 1/2 hours away, and the required spread involved, I have taken to onLine BJ bigtyme. The fact of the matter is that it is so much easier to make money with NO swings involved, next to no risk, that I have little desire to play a "real" game. The best way I can convince people that it can be done is "show them the money". Here it is:

http://webhome.idirect.com/~blakjack/winnings.htm

I have played at over 80 onLine casinos and only had one real run in that was resolved with a little pressure. All of the casinos on the $64,000 web page are legit:

http://webhome.idirect.com/~blakjack/64000.htm

I think we can drop this subject here and move it to Net Casinos, but that is the fat and skinny on onLine.

Rob McGarvey

One who poses as a satisfied customer or an enthusiastic gambler to dupe bystanders into participating in a swindle.

To act as a shill for (a deceitful enterprise).
To lure (a person) into a swindle.

UNLESS you meant this:

A coin used in the United Kingdom, worth one twentieth of a pound, 5 new pence, or 12 old pence prior to 1971.

grin

RM

I don't know what on-line casinos offer, but I would never play against a computer that I haven't programmed myself and even less so against a computer I do not see. I want to see them shuffle the cards and I want to see the cash coming out the window.

Keep in mind that on-line betting is illegal in the USA and all online casinos are located abroad, in places where US laws do not apply. Once I ran into an extremely profitable game. You could take insurance on delear showing 7,8,9,T or A up to the full amount of your bet and win 2:1 if dealer had a T in the hole. Unfortunately this game was in a place where I would never play for serious money. It was too risky to even show that you had more than a few bucks in your pockets.

I do not share your opinion of John May, but my opinion of him is based to a large degree on a specific incident and may be unfairly negative.

I believe you would be giving away your money playing on-line. If you decide to do it anyway, let us know how it goes.

I've seen you (and others) post on the merits of online gambling. I have a couple of legitimate questions:

1. First off... is it legal in the U.S.?

2. Aside from the "doubts" of whether you will ever get paid, I have heard that if the casino KNOWS that you are in it only for the bonus, they can refuse to pay you! Can they refuse to pay off like that... just on their suspicions?

3. Ok... now the big one. I see you posting on your site, places where you can gamble online that pay you for everyone you send to them. I have no problem with that. But why don't the Online casinos have a problem with that? If you can show people how to consistently win money doing that... and it was true... it seems to me that the casinos would charge YOU for the money you are costing them!

So... what's the catch?

TG, people have presented you with a lot of evidence on this matter.
I doubt any more comment on this issue is going to convince you or any one either way. And to be honest, I have mixed feelings about getting more people involved in online gambling in any case, since that will damage its profitability.

In light of this, I have a suggestion: I'll fund your gambling at a number of trustworthy online casinos. I can do this via the paypal system. I don't know you from Adam and you could simply rip me off, but you seem like an honest sort and the money I'm risking would not be a great loss to me. In return, you will give me half of any winnings. If you lose, or if you are not paid, you owe me nothing and I will accept any losses.

I wonder how many people you two will reel in on this shit.

Hey everyone NEWS FLASH! THERE IS NO SECRET MONEY MACHINE ONLINE AT CASINOS!

THEY ARE NOT STUPID>> MUCH LIKE REAL CASINOS THEY DO NOT GIVE AWAY MONEY!

"NEWS FLASH! THERE IS NO SECRET MONEY MACHINE ONLINE AT CASINOS!"

True.

"THEY ARE NOT STUPID"

True.

"MUCH LIKE REAL CASINOS THEY DO NOT GIVE AWAY MONEY!"

False.

They often mail me offers like 'Buy in for $50, receive $100 worth of chips', and unlike on-line casinos, there is no play requirement.

In fact, the marketing department of one casino continued to send me offers like that, even after I had been barred from playing blackjack there. So, I would just go to the cashier cage, cash in my coupons, and leave (after getting a free drink by sitting, but not playing, at a slot machine). ;>)

"1. First off... is it legal in the U.S.?"

Nowhere that I'm aware of, though I suppose it's possible ..somewhere.

"2. Aside from the "doubts" of whether you will ever get paid, I have heard that if the casino KNOWS that you are in it only for the bonus, they can refuse to pay you! Can they refuse to pay off like that... just on their suspicions?"

Yes, of course they can. It certainly has happened in the past. It's illegal for you to participate in the activity, they're located outside of the U.S. and it's laws, how could you force them to pay-up if they refused? You hear about this sort of thing every so often, some casino somewhere refuses to pay-up, usually because they're in financial troubles themselves. But, it's not a common occurence, and it doesn't happen enough to eliminate your edge, far from it, the edge is huge, and remains huge even when the possibility of being completely ripped off is factored in.

"3. Ok... now the big one. I see you posting on your site, places where you can gamble online that pay you for everyone you send to them. I have no problem with that. But why don't the Online casinos have a problem with that? If you can show people how to consistently win money doing that... and it was true... it seems to me that the casinos would charge YOU for the money you are costing them!"

What do they care? It's much like counters and B&M casino's. Only a displined few are really any threat, and a B&M casino can refuse the action of those few. Same thing online, online casino's can simply bar those who are displined enough to take advantage of the online casino's for profit, while allowing those who are not so displined to play to their hearts content. This, by the way, is what usually happens when an online casino believes you to be nothing more than a bonus hustler, they return your deposit, keep your profits and bar you. It's a similar cat and mouse game, online you've got to play enough not to look like a bonus hustler, while not playing so much that you give away your huge edge. It's as simple as that. Online casino's are far more concerned about the tens, maybe hundreds of thousands they lose on credit card charge backs from the fish than they are about the $50 they're risking to the bonus hustler.

They gave me a bunch already. Thanks very much. Not a single problem collecting anywhere. Super high EV/SCORE compared to casinos. Their hook is a lot like porn site hooks, it is tough for the average computer user to install a lot of programs, they rejoice when they get one to work. Thus, once a piece of on-line software is on joe's box, joe uses it a lot... certainly a lot more than the small promo they give out.

I have played 12 places, up about $1500 (ok, up exactly $1502). Paid everywhere very quickly.

Foo

Would you believe typo? Nah me neither, but I really can spell disciplined, ...how about brain freeze?

and take all the liability. Where is the scam here? If the casinos rip him off I lose, he doesn't.
But I'm all talked out on this one. If that doesn't convince any one, nothing will. Like I said it is probably better that way.

I`ll take you up on that offer!

Cheers!
Syph

you were doing it already, Syph.
If you have paypal, tell me the address, and I'll put a little money in your account tonight. You'll need to mail me at the above address so we can hammer out the details.

As you know, gambling is illegal in most of the US.

All on-line casinos, however (and sports books, too), set themselves up in other countries, some of which regulate this (gaming/gambling) industry better than others. Regulations in Costa Rica, for example, are loose and laxly enforced, while regs in Antigua are somewhat tighter.

In answer to your question, the on-line casinos and sports books are legal. Technically, it is illegal for anyone to use a phone line (or other electronic communications device) to place a bet. However, it is also true that there has never been a case of anyone convicted of doing so (in the US). However, because it is illegal for one to place a bet, it also means that you have no (court system-supported) recourse to get your money back should an on-line casino refuse to pay your winnings or bonus.

But, as has been pointed out elsewhere (by Rob and others), there are several above-the-board online casinos which, by all appearances, have a long-term strategic plan--meaning they _will_ make good on what they owe, because they want to be around for a long time.

Me Again means well, but has, IMO, NO experience with onLine play, probably because he thinks it is illegal, or thinks they will rip him off, etc. There are some states which have laws re onLine gaming. Simple answers to your questions:

"1. First off... is it legal in the U.S.?"

In some states it is. Others it is not. I would not worry about an un-enforceable rule. If it's illegal to have a basement apartment but the inspector can't legally gain access to the basement for a legal inspection, file is closed, have a nice day.

"2. Aside from the "doubts" of whether you will ever get paid, I have heard that if the casino KNOWS that you are in it only for the bonus, they can refuse to pay you! Can they refuse to pay off like that... just on their suspicions?"

Yes, they can, but you would have to be a real knob to get caught. Like deposit, play and withdraw in the same afternoon. DAH $20K+, no lockouts......ever

"3. Ok... now the big one. I see you posting on your site, places where you can gamble online that pay you for everyone you send to them. I have no problem with that. But why don't the Online casinos have a problem with that? If you can show people how to consistently win money doing that... and it was true... it seems to me that the casinos would charge YOU for the money you are costing them!"

They make the WRONG asumption that everyone loses. I have had onLine casinos ASK me to take down their banners. I had a deal where the would give me $25 a head. I sent them so many winning players they told me the deal was off. That other recent deal is going out at the end of this month as they would prefer to give me 30% of all losses. 30% of -$3542 does not interest me in any shape or form! grin

RM

"In some states it is. Others it is not."

First, in exactly which states is it legal to gamble via the internet? Secondly, how does this differ from my answer?

"Yes, they can, but..."

This differs from my answer, exactly how?

"They make the WRONG asumption that everyone loses."

Either this is wrong, or online casino operators are the most ignorant people on the planet. Why would they assume any such thing? There's certainly no need for them to assume any such thing in order for them to make the offers that they make, and still show a very nice profit for themselves.

" Me Again means well, but has, IMO, NO experience with onLine play, probably because he thinks it is illegal, or thinks they will rip him off, etc."

My online experience is hardly relevant, given that our answers to the first two questions were virtually identical. And, IMO, your answer to the 3rd question is an inaccuracy. However, if you think it's relevant, for the record, I play online everyday, but only since about this last christmas. The fact that it's illegal bothers me not one iota. The thought of being ripped off bothers me perhaps half of one iota. I play poker, didn't play online for the longest time because of the ease of collusion, and until I started playing poker online, the thought of other online gambling ventures had simply never crossed my mind. I'm sure you've played more, played longer and made more, but I betcha you didn't start with less. I'm up a little over 12.4k since I started playing online and I've never taken a single penny from my pocket to wager online. Roughly 4 months playing, winnings in excess of 12k, and I've taken not one cent from my pocket to place a wager, not a cent, not once. I think, though I could be wrong again, but I think I'm doing just fine.