"21" creating ploppies not pros and freeplay questions

"21" is creating ploppies not pros. Was at MGM Detroit yesterday using some freeplay on the slots (have a ? about that at the bottom) after I was done I went and back counted a shoe or 2 before I left (6 decker s17) when a player got 8-8 v 10 with a $100 bet. He stood on the hand (he did not hit! and surr. is not available) and got badmouthed for it then he said and I quote, "Didnt you see the movie, you dont split 8's against 10's or aces" The count was just below zero but had to laugh my ass off when the cards came as follows; 8, 3, 10, 3, 9, 3, 9. So instead of a 21 and two 20's he has 16. The dealer flipped over a 9 and I couldnt help myself from laughing at him because of some movie. I know what happened might be rare but seems to me that the $8.00 movie cost him a $700 swing (lost $100 and didn't win $600) in this case!

Now my freeplay question:
When using it, obviously its for the slot machines and we figured at the best game to use it on was video poker than it dawned on me the video BJ might be better and here is why. Even though BJ's pay 2 for one along with all other winners the one you lose is the freeplay credit therefore on winning hands you really get 2 TO 1 (lose one freeplay credit, win 2 REAL credits. Also on pushes you win 1 REAL creditm, that is the freeplay credit is returned as a real credit). Any thoughts on this and if anyone has better suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Haven't seen it and likely won't based on reviews. But, from now on, when somebody disses my play, I'll just say..."I think that's what they did in that movie, 21. Didn't you see it!?".

...compared to Deal, the movie, starring Burt Reynolds. Without a doubt, the worst I have seen in years. Even the plot is a rip-off.

Cobbson

The main reason to play the video blackjack for free play is the much lower variance of VBJ vs video poker. With BJs pay even, you are giving up about 2.3% so $100 in free play is worth about $97.70.

If I have $10 in FP, bet 1 FP dollar and get a blackjack I now have $9 in freeplay and $2 in real cash. That is true. This is the same as playing 9/6 JOB and getting 2 pair ( which like a bj is a win of one unit). If I start with $10 in FP, bet $1 and get 2 pair, I now have $9 in FP and $2 in real cash.

Similarly , with JOB, get a high pair is a push so that $1 in FP is converted to $1 real money. I wouldn't call that a one credit win. I would call it a push where FP is now cash. Cash is worth more than FP but not twice as much.

"If I have $10 in FP, bet 1 FP dollar and get a blackjack I now have $9 in freeplay and $2 in real cash. That is true. This is the same as playing 9/6 JOB and getting 2 pair.."

This is correct, but the chances of hitting 2 pair or higher are alot harder than a regular win in VBJ and thats why I may think that using it on the BJ might be a better bet. Sure you can hit 2 pair or higher or even get lucky and hit a 4000 credit royal but chances are you wont with only a small amount of FP. I figure if I'm there to play BJ (table and count, not video) or poker, I also might as well get as much advantage from any freeeplay offered even if its small amounts. Free is free and I'll take it!

"Similarly , with JOB, get a high pair is a push so that $1 in FP is converted to $1 real money. I wouldn't call that a one credit win. I would call it a push where FP is now cash."

True its a push, but it is returned to you as real cash and NOT a FP credit. The obvious thing to do if you could would be to just take cash if possible but you cant (Sometimes they do ofer a choice of 1000 point or the $10 in FP which then the cash is the best choice). Also, you have to actually get a high pair for that push. Getting a straight up win in VBJ I believe easier. And a tie in VBJ is equivalent to a high pair in VP using FP.

All in all, even with the small amount, I'll take any advantage I can get.

I wouldn't even want to give them an idea that I have a clue about anything that has to do with counting. Making a cheap 10 split early in a shoe after just sitting downs works well.

Ibeatyouraces,

As you know, the house edge of their video BJ game is about 2.3%: this translates into an EV of 100 - 2.3 = 97.7%. That means that for every $1000 you play through the machine, you'll end up with about $977. Note that it matters not one whit whether you actually placed 10 of your own Benjis in the machine as opposed to having $1K in free play: either way, at the end you'll have, on average, $977.

Now assume you can instead play 9/6 JoB, which has an EV of 99.54%. Here, for every $1000 (in real money or in free play) you play through the machine, you'll end up on average with $995.40.

Now which is larger, $977 or $995?

Of course, this presupposes you can find VP with an EV higher than that of VBJ... if not, by all means play VBJ.

Granted, the video BJ will have smaller variance than will the VP. At most, you'll end up with $1000 from VBJ (by winning every hand), while you could conceivably end up with $800,000 from VP (by royal flushing every hand... granted, not a likely occurance!). If you were betting some large fraction of your bankroll, the lower variance of VBJ might become an issue. MathProf has posted about the concept of a "Certainty Equivalent", or C.E. You might want to dig through the posts to find some of his ideas... though they may be only on the Green Chip pages, I'm not sure.

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

They (MGM) recently went from assorted 9/5 to all 7/5 JOB. You wont find 9/6 here in Detroit except for a few $1 games at Greektown but they dont give squat for FP

Also rules on the VBJ are S17, double 10-11, split once with DAS, late surrender except vs A.

Funny also on the way to MGM, a billboard they advertise say "We've loosened up." The must have meant they loosened the grip YOU have on your wallet.

For cover, in my opinion, you want to look the part of the average or slightly below average ploppy in the mind of the pit.
The guy who stays on 8,8 vs 10 is much more like the average ploppy than the guy who splits 10's. Pits will look at the 10 splitter as either an idiot or an expert and try to figure out which. They will look at the guy who refuses to split 8,8 as just another player.

Wanting to look like a typical ploppy will cost you money but some borderline plays (with indices they might not even be borderline) can show them that you basic strategy skills are weak. Think of some of the doubles for instance that you do not double in a slightly negative count, such as 9 vs 3.

If you just want to look like an idiot but not have them evaluate your play, as they will when you split 10's, then split your 2,2 vs ace, or hit your 14 vs 6. Like the 10's it will run off some players you may want to get rid of anyway and unlike splitting 10's, the pit will laugh at you instead of evaluating you.