SOTSOG wrote:
"The casino was responsible for putting a employee in a position where they didn't know what they were doing, and then failed to supervise the employee. Why is it the player's job to train the casino employees? How much does the casino pay you to train their people? (or should this training be performed free of charge as a charity, in view of the fine social work and contributions the casinos make)"
I fully agree with SOTSOG on this one. I just can't muster up any sympathy for a casino.
Maybe if casinos wouldn't spend so much time, effort, and money on trying to eliminate legal, skilled advantage players, they could spend more time on properly training and supervising their own employees.
While the original poster may have taken severe advantage of the situation, it is hard to blame him. This is entirely different, in my view, from keeping an accidental overpayment from the cage cashier or a store clerk. I would never think of doing that, but I do routinely keep overpayments from dealer errors, without a second thought.
I would never point out a dealer mistake involving another player, whether it was for or against the player. I like to see casinos lose money, but I also must admit to liking to see ploppies lose quickly so they will go away (since most of them will sit there, slowing down a game with their constant small buy-ins, side bets, pondering over every $5 decision, etc., until they eventually tap out anyway). There was no good reason for the ploppy to get involved.
Given the greedy, rapacious nature of most casino management, it is refreshing to see them get beaten like this once in a while.
I don't agree with Panama Rick about the dealer losing her job. I think that if anyone should lose their job in the situation described, it should be the pit critter who was supposed to be supervising the game, and the surveillance person who obviously wasn't paying any attention either.
The ploppy was out of line in bringing the matter up. I have been victimized by moronic ploppy behavior myself. Recently when a ploppy observed a simple preferential shuffle made against me, he made such a big deal out of it that I wanted to crawl out of the place. Something that would have been forgotten in a couple of months likely has become indelibly etched in the minds of the pit critters involved because of the ploppy (see my GC post of early April -- ". . . shift boss calls counters 'scumbags,' . . ." -- can't link it here, since this is free page).
We have no obligation to help casinos train their employees, any more than they have an obligation to train us on how to play correctly, or train us on how to take advantage of unusual and rare opportunities like this.
Ploppy Hater obviously thought quickly, made a good analysis of the options he was presented with, and maximized his gain. I suppose he may have been at some risk of being forced to return the money, or even being accused of partnering with the dealer in a ripoff. I think he's home free, though, once he got out of the casino.
Casino behavior such as Caesar's actions in the infamous Grosjean/Russo case, and the Ramada Express - Laughlin abuse of the legal, skilled advantage player (all three of these players were actually JAILED simply for bring good at a card game, though other false charges were fabricated against them by casino suits and compliant GCB agents; charges that later were dropped by people more intelligent than the people handling these cases in the field), indicates their lack of respect for people's rights. I say HOORAY to Ploppy Hater for squeezing out some extra money from people who frequently behave in this manner, and engage in the tactics that casino management personnel so frequently resort to.
Virtually all casinos lack ethics in their dealings with their customers. This is simply accepted as the way it is. Why should the player be any different? When did you ever hear a pit critter tell a ploppy, "You really don't play blackjack very well, and you will lose a lot of money. Here's a list of good books you can read to learn to play better." Or, "Mr. Whale, you're really losing too much money. Maybe you should lower your bets, or better yet, stop playing altogether, because you're a loser." How about the "gaming lessons" offered by some casinos. What a farce. Teaching people how to lose!
The casinos don't "play fair" with us, so why should we watch out for their interests?
I think Ploppy Hater really pushed the envelope in exploiting the situation as he described. But only the person there at the time, actually faced with the circumstances, can decide whether the potential risk of hassles is worth the obviously significant profit made.
Would the naysayers think that exploiting a dealer who flashes his hole card is unethical?