Winning BJ without counting??

Hi all,

Well, I'm not a Black Jack expert. I know that it is impossible to win on the long run with (most) progressive systems, especially when you double after every loss. So I decided to play a progression which gently inclines the bets...You may think now, why don't I count cards.. Well the problem is, if you are living in Europe, you have several disadvantages against the rules in Vegas and co.

I.e no DA2 and british style which means no hole card. These rules are inevitable increasing the house advantage for approx. 0.56%

Last but not least and this is the biggest point, the Casinos over here in Europe are mostly using these CSMs, Continued Shuffle Machines, which prevent you from counting the cards. (They are not only using the machine to shuffle the cards and put them afterwards into the shoe. They hit directly from the machine)

My question is, does anybody know how you can beat the casino on the long run under these conditions?

I'm anxious to hear your opinions,

Greez,

using any sort of progression, positive or negative. If you use a posi-progression and happen to hit a home run with it early in your playing career you may well be ahead of the game for a long time (maybe even a lifetime) provided you don't increase your betting unit as a result of a big win.

Hi Duke-
I use a positive progressive betting system with quit points which is described in the book "21st Century Blackjack" by Walter Thomason. In his work he did computer sims comparing play results of flat bettors, card counters, and positive progressive bettors! I know card counters discredit the whole idea of positive progressive betting but i know it works-i use it all the time. Anyway read the book and see what you think. Good luck Duke.

Grift

Thomason's book is based on a mere 5000 hands. Short-term, proves nothing.

Maybe you've found a "system" that somehow defies the laws of mathematics. You would be the only one. You say, "but i know it works-i use it all the time." Or maybe you're fooling yourself.

And Christopher Columbus kept banging his head against the wall yelling"i tell you the world is round,round!!!!! I know how he felt!

thank you guys,

well the problem is, i'd like to get more practice and i'd like to play more in the casinos. but as you can see, in europe you get cheated by them all the time. the rules here are really bad and it is also important to remember, that the basic strategie has massive changes if you play british style (you won't double down 11 versus dealers ace)and no DA2 (most softhands become useless against a dealers 5 or 6)

looks like i have to focus on roulette...

cya

thank you guys,

well the problem is, i'd like to get more practice and i'd like to play more in the casinos. but as you can see, in europe you get cheated by them all the time. the rules here are really bad and it is also important to remember, that the basic strategie has massive changes if you play british style (you won't double down 11 versus dealers ace)and no DA2 (most softhands become useless against a dealers 5 or 6)

looks like i have to focus on roulette...

cya

You are still better off with the small advantage you gain by counting in blackjack than playing roulette. Just don't expect to retire as a result.

but the prob. is that it is not possible to count in central europe. nearly all casinos around here are directly hitting from the csm...

if its the european single zero wheel with "en prison" rules on the even money bet the house edge will be about 1.315% or about 2.63% on straight up numbers. Considering the slow pace of roulette and the lack of mental energy required and the faster pace of blackjack your total hourly "entertainment cost" might be less at roulette.

but i always liked card games. i like blackjack very much, it looks so simple and is so sophisticated. but like all of you, i'm not only playing for fun, i play to win. on the other hand, there are many guys like GRIFT who swear on prog. betting. if you can reduce the house advantage down to 1% with perfect basis play, you might have a chance if you got a long progression which gives you the possibility to lose 7 or 10 times in a row. since splits and doubles are statistically always working for you, these chances and the progression may be able to beat the casino... but like everything it will take a long time to test, assimilate and test again, brrr

my PROOF will be evident when i take home the casinos money tonight! best of luck Duke.

hey, I tried a positive progressive or whatever and can't seem to make any money when I simulate it. If you are saying you increase or double your bet when the RC is positive then that is called counting cards and yes it does work even if you are using a relaxed version of it. I tried simulating progression bets and have NEVER had a positive result (always am a loser in the sims).

And Christopher Columbus kept banging his head against the wall yelling"i tell you the world is round,round!!!!! I know how he felt!

So do we. The unfortunate part is you are on the other end of the stick saying its flat. In the short term, the earth looks flat, but if you go long term its as round as a........grin I'm glad you are having fun. Don't play too long or you won't be able to see the dock anymore, then you'll be in shit. Do you know how to use a compass? Now don't be telling me that compasses lie because the don't point at the north pole.

It's still possible to make a living with BJ in Europe,once you are proficient.I admit that the rules are in general worse than in the States but you have also one big advantage: There is much less heat which allows far bigger spreads. I don't know from where you take the claim that in Europe you'll be cheated?

Francis Salmon

If you are prepared to hop on a plane then you can play at Casinos, in Europe, that have some of the best rules in the World, with a player-advantage off the top in the multi-deck games.

Also, you can place bets behind other players, preferably choosing those that may follow your playing advice. This allows you to increase your bets without having to open new boxes.

Finally, there are still plenty of preferntial shuffles, that are used in Europe, for players who know how to benefit from them.

All in all plenty of opportunity.

'Switch'

switch: i would appreciate if you could name a couple of casinos where it is ok to pay a visit. maybe i have to try them out.

francis: maybe you misunderstood the statement "cheated" exempt from one casino in the czech rep. i never had the feeling that the dealer was able to take influence into the game. but for me, british style and hitting from csm is such a big disadvantage. why don't they use the csm to shuffle and put the deck into the shoe afterwards. this does not slow down the game. and if there are no discard sheets, you are not able to estimate the penetration. and the ability to add to a players box is not really a chance. nobody plays good enough, last but not least, i've been in several casinos which offer 9 box tables, i don't like them because they slow down the game too much.

regards,

I don't wanna read the book.

Why don't you post this great progression w/quit points so we can do our own computer research on it?

ya' know what coot,it's a good thing lewis and clark didn't have computers-by god we'd all be living in the new england area-can't ya' picture it-lewis and clark sitiing at their computers-never taking one single step in a westerly direction!! have a great day coot!

..we have here is a failure to communicate. Some men ya just can't reach."