A very risk averse philosophy that gives up an enourmous amount of ev. The people who have made the most money at virtually every venture are those who have put their money behind other people. You just don't put all your eggs in one basket
I wasn't agreeing with TG in that context. I bankroll players all the time. I meant that it is adviseable not to take advice on board without critical analysis.
My impression is a skilled player peaks out around 100K (e.g., $100 per hour times 1000 hours or some similar combination). Comps and mail should roughly compensate for travel expenses. A team leader can roughly double his earnings by running a team. If the investors/management split the EV then a team leader would need to supervise 2000 hours of team play to get compensates for 1000 hours of his own play, and would have difficulty managing more than 4000 hours of quality team play. Does that seem roughly correct?
What about skimming? What is your experience there, and how can you stop it? You obviously try to keep people on a short leash. But unobserved fluctuations are natural. If you pay based on hours then people will get sloppy. But especially if you pay based on results, winners will feel they are supporting everybody. And if you pay only a percentage of profits then losers will be discouraged from digging out of a deep hole. How large is the drain from skimming?
I can only answer for my own group. But we play fewer hours to a higher win rate. We shoot for a minimum $300/hr for the games we play. A player can win the first couple of hundred thousand before he has to start resorting to various tricks, such as fake documentation, returning multiple times to properties where he's been tossed, and spending half of his time on the road hitting games all over the country. The player may decide all this is not worth it and just take the initial easy money before he is well known everywhere. If he decides to take it to the next step there is no telling how far he can go. Tommy Hyland is still going. I find it difficult to get in more than 500 hrs per year, and I haven't done that in a few years. Last year I got in just over 300. As time goes on you have to do more traveling to get in fewer hours. We have seven people right now and will probably get in between 2500 & 3000 hours this year. At this second we have 187 hours for January, and will probably finish the month with a little over 200 hours.
I have no idea what skimming costs. I don't think I have much skimming, although I could be very naive. Those player who others have suggested to me might be skimming tended to be the ones with the highest win rates.
But I think that this bankrolling is a big win win situation. Variance very much favors the player. He might win big and get paid alot. He might lose big and it cost him nothing but lost time. More money is lost by players with negative variance who don't stick around to grind things out than from skimming, I'm sure.
If the team is successful then the team captain won't be able to keep all the investment returns for long. Soon all the players who had no bankroll to start will have lots of money and will want a piece of the action. I financed the entire team when I started. I now have about a 40% interest and other players account for the other 60% of the investment. We establish minimum criteria that is needed for investment, like amount of time on team, hourly win rate, and willingness to help with various non-playing duties.
More money is lost by players with negative variance who don't stick around to grind things out
I think I understand the term grinding it out, but please explain & give some examples.
Thanks,
No wonder you give T-H the benefit of the doubt, you don't deliver on your promises either! I'm shocked, shocked, that the BJ gurus aren't what they claim to be. What's next? Don Scheslinger doesn't actually PLAY that much BJ? I'm curious tho - you chime in as an "expert" on something that you knew ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about. You even offer some pop psych nonsense about an 'obsessive perfectionist'. You must have made that idiotic claim based on your fantasy. It is certainly not reality. I wonder what else you chime in on as an "expert" that you also know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about. You don't even know T-H. I've known T-H for years. Been on BJ road trips with him. Sent him cross county on an errand for me (you don't want to hear that story). Let him live in my garage (he thought he was in Disneyland - but you don't want to hear that story either) I also trusted him enough to put him on an account that had access to my checking account and one of my credit cards. He misused that privilege. I was probably naive to think a little public opprobrium would cause him to be more responsible. PS. I was just kidding about the refund.
never lend mates money in a casino....one of my mates (earns nice $$ in another industry) lent one of his mates au$10k (6kUS),
he wont get it back...
that said, i have won small amounts of money in addition to mine, to cover friends losses (only when i felt i was part to blame...)
never cover anyone out of your own pocket, dont give out loans.....in this industry odds are you wont get your money back...
I'm curious tho - you chime in as an "expert" on something that you knew ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about
Thats not true, I've communicated with T-hopper for over seven years. He seems like a nice guy. That is not the same thing as dealing with him financially, but I'm not starting from a position of complete ignorance. My comments were to the effect that maybe there had been a misunderstanding. Sheesh.
You "put your nose to the grindstone" and work long and hard to earn your rewards.
Example: You lose 300 units spreading 1-10, and you don't qualify for profits until you earn it back. You might get discouraged and quit. Or you might stick around and play until you earn it back. Three times your bankroll inches up close to break-even and you get hit with a horrible shoe that loses 50 or 100 units. Finally after six months of intense play you have won back the money plus 100 units on the last day. But you can't identify a single spectacular streak that accounts for the win. Instead your win is the cumulative result of persistence and stamina. That's grinding it out.
Example: You are losing a football game 14-0 in the first quarter, and your quarterback is injured. Instead of passing you play smash-mouth football and run the ball 3 yards per play. That's "grinding out" yardage.
Hey TH. I can send you a copy of PDF writer which should solve all of your formating problems. It is version 3.1 and should work on everyone's machine. You have to use back dated programs sometimes so that they can be used on all machines.
are you "related" to TH by any chance? Maybe we have "spoken" about this before.
BTW, I don't do football
and why is "related" and "spoken" in quotations? Have you ever been to Rachel on the ET Highway?
I'm basically talking about one's willingness to continue to put in the hours for a long period of time after experiencing a large negative fluctuation. They may just decide to take a hike. When this happens the other players on the team have to make up this deficit. If the players, in total, are getting 50%, then this means each will actually get less than 50% of his win because the money lost by the losing player will never be recouped.
Grinding it out just means putting in lots of hours and letting the fluctuations offset each other until you finally realize something close to your expectation.
It is the NT version, so I had to go get the latest version which will probably only work on WIN 98 and UP!
for the explainations
