Why do so many players refuse to split 4's vs. 5 or 6 in games with DAS?

I have encountered so many players who do everything else "by the book," but insist that doubling down is better than splitting the pair of 4's. Even most dealers seem surprised when I split the 4's. I have had many players and dealers say that "the book" says you should never split pairs that start with 'F'. Yet every book and website I've seen say that splitting is the correct play as long as DAS is permitted; in fact, they all say that doubling down is not even the 2nd best choice in games with 2 decks or more (hitting is the 2nd best choice). They also say that 4's should be split vs. 4 in SD games with DAS. Are there any books or other sources out there from which people are getting the incorrect info. that 4's should NEVER be split? Or, do any of you pros out there agree that 4's should NEVER be split?

Your understanding of BS is correct. If you go by what others do, you will drive yourself crazy!

Don

Most players have their own bastardized idea of basic strategy. Or, like some posters on this board, they believe that certain plays "don't work" for them.

All of the following are correct basic strategy, yet they often get funny looks from other players, and open hostility from the elderly Asian lady at first base, expecially when they do not work as hoped:

The aforementioned 4 splitting (DAS games).

Hitting A-7 vs dealer 10 upcard.

Doubling A-7 vs weak dealer upcard.

Hitting 12 vs dealer 3 upcard.

Splitting 9's vs dealer 8 or 9 upcard.

Standing on a pair of 7's vs dealer 10 upcard (single deck only).

Alot of little card charts have the BS for bj that don't include splitting 4s. Even the KO book doesn't mention it in the main body of it's strategy so alot of us used KO for a long time without bothering to do that

You are correct about splitting 4's vs 5,6 when DAS is allowed. All these players that you see saying not to do it are ignorant and unaware of the truth. We all know that more than 99% of people who BJ are too stupid and lazy and doubtful of the truth to invest even 5 minutes of their life into strategy BJ. BS that most people use does not come from charts, books, websotes, etc...it comes from loudmouths at the table and we all know how accurately a story gets passed from one person to another.

Shotkaller

Doesn't the KO book give an nDAS table and then list DAS exceptions? I don't have it with me, so I could be wrong.

If you go by what others do, you will drive yourself crazy!

Not to mention drive yourself destitute!

M.

Parker,

While playing recently on a trip, I had three bets at my max, and wound up with 2 16s and a 17 against a face. I cringed, waved them all, and the dealer pulled a 20. Now this moron, who doubled 11 and got a rag, started yelling at me, telling me what an idiot I was for waving them, and how I cost him money, and what not. Even the pit boss was there standing up for me, as was the dealer. Nevertheless, this guy would not shut up. So, I finally snapped.

"Aren't you clever?" I retorted, "I flushed $225 down the drain to cost you $20! How'd you know?!"

By this time we had a huge crowd, so while the guy was droning on and on, I evenually told him that he shouldn't gamble if he couldn't afford to lose, and threw him 4 red checks with a "now shut the hell up" comment. While he was busy looking all embarassed not wanting to take it, his wife picked up the chips, sat down beside me and asked me how to play. Heh, heh, heh. It was some sweet, I tell you, because she was hot hot hot! Of course, this just infuriated the guy further.

Happy ending: Hot wife makes $90, gives me the $20 back and thanks me for all the good advice. The highlight of my trip. Would have been worth the $20 at any rate, just to stand this fool on his ass.

Bottom line, though, table heat sucks.

M.

In some cases splitting 44 against 5,6 is NOT basic strategy, even at a 6-decker WITH das.

You heard correct. now name that situation. no tricks like hole card, next card, etc. allowed.

2-1 BJ promo is the answer !!!!!

i normally bet approx full Kelly to a 10K bank. Now on a neutral deck or off the top, i am now betting about 2 x 150 due to the 2% edge for the promo.

On a h17 six decker, off the top, i normally have no trouble doubling an 11 vs A cause i am normally betting average anywhere between 0 and $25 bucks. But i admit, i anticipated feeling uneasy making the same move with $100 or $200 and a slightly positive rc.
So, anyways, i generated RA indices for this situation, and indices changed.

AOII
For example, With the 2x100 off the top bet, my 9 vs 2 jumped a few points. Even 9 vs 4 jumped to 0. 11 vs A went to 1.
44 vs 5,6 went to + 2 !!! 33 vs 2 went to +7 !!!!! and this is WITH das.
Now i only did it for a 2 x 100 off the top bet. With a 1 x 200, maybe even higher.

Now i have only been on the BJ scene for 1.5 years so maybe this is common knowledge. Don ??

"Now i have only been on the BJ scene for 1.5 years so maybe this is common knowledge. Don ??"

It's "common" in the sense that R-A indices have been with us for over 20 years, since Joel Friedman's landmark paper. For example, I just checked it and, for 4,4 vs. 5 and 6, hi-lo, das, the indices for a 2% bet are, indeed, +2.1 and +1.7, respectively.

Don

are unaware of this though.

For example, at JA Nugget promo, they would see me make normal deviations, but were a little surprised when i would make some of the plays. For example, not double A2 vs 5 at slightly positive. New index = +6 !!

They were either seriously underbetting roll, or not aware of such a large discrepancy in ra indices for this situation.

I assume the reason for these shifts is that you're basically sitting around waiting for naturals, and all the other hands lose their usefulness by comparison, especially in terms of reducing risk. Is that pretty much right or am I missing it?

If you are betting some form of kelly, your bet is based on your percentage of advantage. So, when you placed your bet, the bet amount was based on an advantage that takes into consideration that blackjacks pay 2:1. Now, you didn't get a blackjack, and so your advantage is back to whatever the normal EV of the situation is you face. If it is a split or a double down, you now must place another large chunk of bankroll on the table, and this additional bet is actually overbetting your bankroll.

I'm sure El Burro could tell you he saw several people go broke betting table max chasing the 2:1 blackjacks and not having the bankroll to back up such large bets from the normal fluctuations of the game.

If you have $100 and I give you 3:2 odds on a coin flip every time I flip heads, and you start betting $50 a flip, if I flip tails twice (25% chance), you are broke.