Free Forum - Why count the negative cards?

Mandaboo

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Nov 4, 2019, 10:09:58 AM

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I was thinking why do card counting systems count the low cards?
(I am not designing a system I just was wondering).

If I count only 10.J.Q.K.A knowing there are 20 of them per deck.
Then I know Anything less than 5 cards per 1/4 means more plus cards than minus or neutral cards.

Even in a 6 deck shoe of 312 cards I have 120 high cards the rest are negative or neutral.
Seems like a 1 or 2 deck game would be even easier.

Has anyone ever developed a counting system when you just count the positive cards and adjust per decks played or half decks played?

So say single deck at a quarter deck you should be at 5. If you are higher the deck is negative if you are lower the deck is good. Calculating the equivalency to true count should not be that hard.

Or is that all just silly and my ignorance of card counting and I am issing some huge elephant in the casino?

I bet Don S. Knows!

Don Schlesinger

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Nov 4, 2019, 10:35:17 AM

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I was thinking why do card counting systems count the low cards?
(I am not designing a system I just was wondering).

If I count only 10.J.Q.K.A knowing there are 20 of them per deck.
Then I know Anything less than 5 cards per 1/4 means more plus cards than minus or neutral cards.

Even in a 6 deck shoe of 312 cards I have 120 high cards the rest are negative or neutral.
Seems like a 1 or 2 deck game would be even easier.

Has anyone ever developed a counting system when you just count the positive cards and adjust per decks played or half decks played?

So say single deck at a quarter deck you should be at 5. If you are higher the deck is negative if you are lower the deck is good. Calculating the equivalency to true count should not be that hard.

Or is that all just silly and my ignorance of card counting and I am issing some huge elephant in the casino?

I bet Don S. Knows!

by: Mandaboo

What you're suggesting isn't unreasonable, but the problem is the neutral cards. You're lumping them in with the low cards and not distinguishing between the two groups. As a result, suppose, after a half deck, you've seen only five high cards instead of ten. So you know -- or think you know --that you have a good, positive-deck situation. But suppose that imbalance is due entirely, or mostly, to neutral cards that convey no advantage at all, instead of the 2-6 positive cards? You would have no way to know that. And therein lies the problem. The RC would be very different for the two situations.

And so we count the small cards, too!

Don

Joe Gerbils

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Nov 7, 2019, 9:30:12 PM

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Mandaboo, look into the "Effect of Removal". You may consider, for instance, a '4' and '5' low cards but they have a very positive EoR on the over-all deck. As D.S. said you may know the deck is rich in high cards at the moment but it could also be rich in 4s, 5s and 6s. Also because Aces have not only dual values but also qualify you as a blackjack, their removal should be treated differently and not lumped together in the 10-values.

Read the first half of Norm Wattenberger's "Modern Blackjack" book, available for free, and you'll have a good grasp on why systems are designed the way they are.

Mandaboo

Posts count: 12

Topics count: 6

Nov 10, 2019, 8:14:26 PM

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Thank you guys for the info.
I will read Mr. Wattenberger's book.
I have so much to learn.

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Why count the negative cards?