Who else uses "KO" ?

Are there any other "KO" Players out there..Let's keep in touch...and share info.

Just kidding, of course. Hi-Lo & KO are the 2 most popular count systems, so plenty of people here use it. I use about 20 of the exact indices for pitch games. How about you?

David Matthews (the webmaster of this site, not the musician) did a poll of the green chip members, and 19% used KO. This made it the second most popular system, behind Hi-Lo (31%). No other single system had over 8%.

Long Story Short>>>
I'm new to "KO" & BJ family. I became aware of "KO" during March...Because I was going to Vegas in April. Boy OH Boy...When I go Vegas, I was in for a rude awakening. I didn't know what the hell I was doing. I quickly loss my first $100..trying to maintain a card count. When my counting didn't work, I used plan "KO" basic strategy>>no counting..& proceeded to lose $50 more bucks...Damn that hurt!!!!...being barred was the least of my worries...I'm sure Vegas will welcome me back with open arms....VENGEANCE IS MINE!!!!

P.S. 2 Months later & Some very good BJ Books and BJ Software..I've made some pretty good progess...>>>In my house...I have yet to take my knowledge back to the "Green Felt", but as sure as the moon rises..I will.

I Remain....The LoneWolf

*

Hello all. As I wrote here before, I�m trying to fully understand and become proficient in the use of KO Rookie System. I live in M�xico, so my only references have been extracted from the -for most of you- well known link:

So, I took the values for IRC and KC given there, and came up with this table -Big deal!- (I tried to post some fancy tables but something went wrong with the TABLE tag of the HTML, tables went far to the bottom, but I hope you get the idea)

Decks/IRC/KC
1/ 0/ 2
2/ -4/ 1
3/ ?/ ?
4/ ?/ ?
5/ ?/ ?
6/ -20/ -4
7/ ?/ ?
8/ -28/ -6

Now, I was intending to fill out the blanks (? marks) in order to know the 'critical counts' for any number of decks. Knowing that all the numbers involved are proportional to the number of decks, the relation has to be linnear between IRC and/or KC and that number, but that�s not so. That�s the reason of this post, which may seem an algebra one, but for what matters is indeed a BJ one.

As it�s been posted by someone below, we can move the IRC to zero for all cases, so we obtain the following equivalent table:

Decks/IRC/KC
1/ 0/ 2
2/ 0/ 5
3/ 0/ ?
4/ 0/ ?
5/ 0/ ?
6/ 0/ 16
7/ 0/ ?
8/ 0/ 22

So, we are now only concerned about the relation between KC and the number of decks. Surprinsingly there are at least three linnear relations that fit with some of the data.

If we take the two first rows as correct, the relationship is:

KC=3*Decks-1

But this one doesn�t work with the last two known rows for 6 and 8 decks.
The relation between this two last rows is given by:

KC=3*Decks-2

Furthermore, if we take only the first and last row, they are linked by:

KC=(22*D-8)/7 almost equal to=3.14*Decks-1.14

So, assuming that all of the data obtained and generously given to us by Mr. Vancura and Mr. Fuchs are correct -which I have no reason to doubt- there are at least three ways to fill the blanks. What I�m planning to do with this information? Simple, if in Vegas I find a nice 4-decker, gonna play with the KC that gives me the least risk, which is: 11.42. Round it to where you feel more comfortable. �11, 12? Make your pick.

Greetings from M�xico City.

Like you I have recently started to use K.O. but not yet used it under battle conditions, but have sat with B.S. trying to keep the count going.

I have purchased books and software (which did you use) and like you and just waiting the day.

As a trainee "unreal" card counter I think K.O. fits the bill for me in both expectation of the system and ease of use.

Your scientific guesstimate for 4 decks is correct.

The key count for 4 decks is found in Appendix VII of the 2nd edition of KO BJ. It is +11 above the IRC.

Using an IRC of 0, these are the published key counts:

#D Key Ratio
1d +2 2.0
2d +5 2.5
4d +11 2.75
6d +16 2.67
8d +22 2.75

Notice the ratio column - that's the "key" so to speak for determining the key counts for any other number of decks. You can see how the ratio increases slightly with # of decks - this is probably due to rounding. Again using an IRC of 0, you can determine the key count for 3, 5, and 7 decks by this simple formula:

Key = (# of decks * 2.75) rounded down

After rounding down, the resulting key counts (+8, +13, +19) have ratios that are in the right neighborhood.

Here's the complete table:

#D Key Ratio
1d +2 2.0
2d +5 2.5
3d +8 2.67
4d +11 2.75
5d +13 2.60
6d +16 2.67
7d +19 2.71
8d +22 2.75

I don't know why the authors don't just go ahead and publish these numbers.

Hey Bulk weldable

As far as BJ Software is concerned, I have been using "Super BlackJack" @ SuperBlackJack21.com
You can enter the "KO" counting system without any problems..I've been using it for about 1 month. I think its great.

I've learned from the guys on the BJ message boards..That "Casino Verite" is the best. I don't have the web address handy at this time, but I will find out and get this software also....You can download the shareware software off their web site and try it out, but they omitted all "5's & 6's". Until you pay for the program, then you get the full verison.

The last I heard "KO BJ" software is no longer available. The price for "SuperBlackJack is $20 & "Casino Verite" is $100
LoneWolf

1st of all - define "real" card counters. Then, explain why a card counter would NOT play an unbalanced system if he/she is counting a shoe!

I'd say REAL card counters don't cut down other people's systems unless they are just wanna be's.

I have SuperBJ and found it O.K. to keep up BS skills and pratice counting with the flash cards, however I find it a bit dull and lacking when it comes to simulate game play ready for real as you are the only player.

I have found the free sage software good for practicing for the real thing as it deals quite quickly and you can have from 1-7 players as you get better. No count register though with the free software so it all in your head.

I have heard of casino verite and understand its quite good, but as you have shown a bit expensive.

It's hard to "see" things in cyberspace, but if you look closely I believe you will "see" adhoc's tongue planted firmly in cheek.

The tip off was that I used a smiley face [ :-) ]after the comment, just before the (nt). Look again, see it? :-) It is a variation of a well known one-liner about what real men do not eat.

Did anyone else not realise that this was a joke?

regards,
adhoc

a poster that thought John Patrick was really helping him and if there is one thing that get's me going is a Patrick lover.

I'm not sure if you are adhoc from a year ago or another forum but I have not been here for a while and I just could not believe that John Patrick was still selling books to the innocent.

Again - sorry!

Apology accepted. I commend you on your sincerity.
I don't know about any other "adhocs". I have used that handle exclusively since first participating on bj21 a month or so after it's beginning, about five years now.

cheers,
adhoc

I have been using KO successfully since the book came out. There are some things you can do to tweak the system, but it is really just fine out of the box. Prior to using KO, I was using hi-lo with perfectly acceptable results. KO is simpler and I am of the philosophy that the simpler the better. Others may disagree and that is fine, but the system has worked well for me.

I remember the first time I tried to count in a casino. At the time, I was using the Hi-Opt 1 count. I had practiced plenty at home and was confident that I would do well in the casino. By the time I had played two hands, I lost the count and I spent the rest of the session in a total state of confusion. Fortunately for me, I wound up winning money that first time in spite of myself.

I didn't give up. Instead, I went back to the woodshed and kept on practicing. The next time, it was easier and it just kept getting easier each time out. You can do it, but if my own experience is any indication, expect some rocky bumps along the way. Eventually, with enough time at the tables, it will become second nature to you.

Come to think of it, did I read that ad hoc also sued KO?

(Of course, these lawyers will use just about anything.)

and thus REALLY apologize. I have not been around much in the last couple years.