hello fellow a.p.s.....
can anyone answer this for me?:
where does heat originate from? does it usually start with the pit people calling the eye in the sky, does it usually start with the eye in the sky noticing your play and then alerting the pit, or is it 6 of one, half dozen of the other? thanks to whoever has an opinion...
jefftrader
That it most often comes from someone in the pit. The eye folks have a "bunch" of monitors up and running, and noticing/watching your game is unlikely unless you happen to collect a huge pile of chips.
But the pit watches, particularly "chip flow" and "oddball plays". And if you attract their attention, they may ask surv. to have a look-see. Sometimes it originates with the dealer when they are alert enough to pick up on something you are doing and comment about it to the pit.
Others may have a different opinion of course. Personally I have seen much less "heat" than the more common back-off that happens the next time I show up to play. Something in my last session generated "interest", a video-replay would produce a note for them to be ready if I use my player's card again.
thanks ssr,
i have avoided being rated so far, partially to avoid what you just described....what are your feelings on this, not being rated vs. being rated? i feel it just gives the house the opportunity to more closely figure out how much youve won...besides the obvious benefit of getting free rfb, i cant see the advantage of gettting rated....any thoughts? thanks,
jefftrader
It's has happened both ways to me. I have been backed off after playing awhile just from pit observations or the fact I have won more $$ than they think is avg. for the amount of time played.
The last time I was backed off (escorted out by security actually) was only after about 10 mins of play. I am sure that it was a result of prior observation and rated play that they flagged and the ejection was based on a note put in my profile.
This is not the best subject for public info, but a couple of comments.
There are ways to get comps without playing using your _real_ name. Swap player's cards with a friend that doesn't play BJ. If you get him backed off, he won't care. :)
Playing at a "low level" (as I generally do) doesn't cause problems if you just sit down and play. If you start tossing green at some places, or blacks anywhere, they will start to wonder if you don't want to be rated... And that attracts more "interest" from them.
I do a little of both. Depends on the situation...
But I will say this, that 90% of my "problems" were always on the next session following a session where I used a player's card. One rather amusing case was where I used a family member's card to play, next time _he_ tried to play they were "waiting". :) Called me and asked "what in hell did you do when you were in there, start a riot or something?" :)
thats pretty funny...and a great idea...but your post seems to confirm what i suspect: when you get rated, they track your play more closely, and can attach a judgement of your play to that card. so the next time you come in,they back you off. but i agree, as soon as i sit down with a stack of greens, they are asking me to be rated, greens do attract attention. and 2 weeks ago, in california, a guy sitting next to me asked to get rated....they asked him for a picture i.d. first....so how can you use someone else's rating card if they check your i.d. against it? unless they only ask for the i.d. when they first rate you,and never after that? or did your family member lend you his i.d. too? thanks for your post ssr,
jefftrader
I assume he had no player's card, and most casinos ask for an ID to set up the player's card. Only bit of advice is to not hand them your license to let them scan the thing and save the image. Tell 'em "you can see the picture, you can record the number, but I'm not having any photo-copy of my d/l running around. If you insist on copying it, I'll just play somewhere else."
After getting a player's card, I can't recall ever being asked to produce any sort of ID when buying in. I have seen people sit down and play black and the pit boss comes over and offers to get them a player's card to allow their play to be rated. He generally asks for an ID there...
If you borrow someone's player's club card, make sure they are not blackjack players. The whole point is to not get identified, but then you are playing with their card and "they" will be identified and might not be able to play more BJ. In some places, if you get really active, and do enough damage to get a backoff in a place with low tolerance, or worse yet, 86'd, then you can hurt the card-holder. Comps could be wiped out. Even worse, when he returns he could be arrested if you were 86'd...
We've just made it a practice to sign up for a card at every place we play, whether or not we will likely be back anytime soon. That gives us a "collection" to swap as needed, and we always mark cards where problems arose, so that the owner won't go back and fall into a trap.
great info, thanks for the details ssr!
jefftrader
when they don't have an actual scanned photocopy of your drivers license on file. The pit will begin a relentless barrage of pleas to get you to give them your license for a copy.
This is due to the State of Nevada's crackdown on CTR violations. At $3000 the casinos are required to make an effort to get your info (you can still refuse). At $10,000.01 they are required to actually have it.
that once you get to that "level" you are running into a real problem about having your license scanned. Personally, I have not bought in for more than $500 at one instance, so have not had that problem, although I have still been bugged relentlessly about a player's card at times. (I have played at the MGM frequently, and by watching how I bet, the pit actually will refuse my players card if they don't see me betting $25 or more when they peek). I have player's cards for most places, assuming they will give me one without physically copying my D/L (some refuse). For those, I have player's cards from non-BJ playing friends to use when necessary. I just have a real problem with an actual copy of my license floating around. There have been enough identity thefts from waitresses at restaurants saving old credit card copies to make me not want to trust anyone with a copy of anything I have. Not to mention not wanting to leave something to identify me on my next visit, of course.
But once you get to $5k, I suppose the problem becomes real, rather than perceived, for the pit critters.
I have player's cards for most places, assuming they will give me one without physically copying my D/L (some refuse). For those, I have player's cards from non-BJ playing friends to use when necessary.
Be careful in using other players' club cards in places where they scan the entire DL or you might get an unpleasant surprise and a lot of heat when the Pit sweeps your card and the picture of another face shows up on his computer.
I agree, if they insist on showing your ID when you sign up for a card never physically hand it to them, just show it to them so they can verify your name, never leave it out of your hand.
I don't use cards that way, for the very reason you mentioned. There are "several" of us that swap cards, some are just "gamblers" and some actually try to win by skill (say CC + blackjack). I don't personally own a player's card with my license scanned against it, but if I did, I would somehow mark it to make sure that no one "borrows it" to use and then get into a hassle (I do not believe it is illegal, but it could certainly create a minor hassle.)
I prefer to play unrated which makes it harder for them to check my play after I leave and then "be ready" for me on my return, which might be a day or 6 months in the future. And since I'm not playing black (except for big bets) nobody seems to care much...
On Fremont I don't think I was ever asked for a card or anything while playing every day for a week+...
