Not in Las Vegas, there's too much competition. I'm talking about the Northeast since there's only 2 casinos.. Mohegan Sun and Foxwoods.
I'm assuming you have to purchase land from the Indian reservations and continue from there? After that it shouldn't cost that much to have 10 or so random gaming tables and a few slot machines. The betting limit would be low to cater to the locals and bums with dreams.
the gambling licence. Remember you still need to cover operating costs + standard deviations + taxes.
Difficulty in attracting customers + compete with foxwood, etc.
Potential thieves from employees.
It's more difficult than being an advantage player. You need much more skill + BR.
You can make it easier by running an illegal one but then there are other risks.
Why bother will all that - you can buy turnkey software from one of the major software providers for 30K. No overheads, or counters, or card hustlers neither. And the whole world can play there.
NA, your remark is a "ho ho szill" which looks like this:
PS: To bj21.com & companies (especially to NA & Clark Cant): Gung haa fodd choid.
1. Most indian goverments dont sell reservation land. They lease it for 99 years. If they did sell the land to you, there is little to keep them from taking it back. I have not checked the books for this but there are several 1800 goverment acts written to "protect" the nations from selling their land to the white man.
2. A lease is expensive. The American indian have several advocacy groups to handle their dealings with casinos of today. You would be dealing with a Harvard team of lawyers and a contract that is really and international agreement that is more than likely 200 to 300 pages in completeness.
3. After setting an established "payment plan" There is usually a requirement to distribute a piece of the gate "In the interest of the further advancment of the people of the nations" ect. ect.
(Palm greaseing)
4. The federal goverment still exercises several rights over ruleing indian goverments that will need to be respected.
5. Construction, material gathering, need to improve infrasructure, ect. (normally a requirement) is expensive.
6. The startup cash, a huge hold to guard against fluctuations and theft. 1 years wages and enough cash to cover any deviation.
This in short is a huge investment. I would guess many millions to open the doors and possibly several millions more in the first year to advertise, train, ect.
Online
Much smaller start up
1 million
gets you software, bandwith for a year, hold cash, and on board support for problems.
the problems are security.. hackers,.... and competition.. there is an online casino on every ad I see.
money to be made in both cases.. but if I had that bank roll why would I start a casino?
Please forgive any errors I have made in point of law, American Indian treaty is not a very active area of Law,,, but for a small retainer....
are dependant treaties.
Go rent Meteor or Deep Impact. OK they were see once films both. But get out the good VCR or DVD and freeze on the credits and the mention of the 1978 US/USSR Vienna Site Status Protical of the Joint Space Defense Treaty. Findlaw and the other online legal serivces except Westlaw and one other will NOT give the full text of these treaties. I believe Westlaw still WILL.
Be sure you are looking at the JSDT Vienna Site Status Protical and not the SALT II Site Status Protical.
Look at the listings of defense instalations, or the mention (findlaw), "useful to the purposes of joint defense against extraterrestrial threat."
You will see several bases and listings of native american (US) and aboriginal peoples (USSR) treaties that both sides agreed to enforce to insure control of such instalations. Thus those treaties were no longer dependant treaties but full soveriegn treaties upheld by the US and now Russia, as a condition in subsequent treaties, and to keep control over bases that COULD be useful to zap comets and the like. The JSDT also came in handy when the USSR vanished, in that it was the first treaty designed so that its signatories would force compliance and subscription (signing) on any successor nations in perpetuity.
That is how the indians were able to break out of the normal "dependent treaties," trap that is otherwise part of the US code. The first to correctly read this was an official with a upper peninsula of Michigan Chipewa band who was a Minuteman technician in the US Air Force. The MI state code provided for municipalities to have charitable gambling nights and gave such status to the state's indian reservations. Any city could just have 365/24/7 gambling nights except for the municipalities commission of MI rules, where the only enforcement would be state supervision.
But the reservations were not just MI municipalities but were also soveriegn; 18 USC 1152 meant now jurisdiction was reserved under the JSDT. MI could not turn off the "casino nights."
The Seminoles in Florida had also continued high stakes bingo and the FL authorirties simply failed to enforce. Some indians realized they too were actually able to claim full soveriegnity. They were on the "super treaty list," of the JSDT.
So the other tribes lobbied hard for the same deal. That lobbying resulted in the Indian Gaming Act.
The Massingtiguit Pequots even were able to get funding from the Riadies to not only open their casino but to impliment a reestablishment of the entire tribe ( a prior forced treaty to re-establish was not implimented fully at first). They even had another way to squeeze the feds over an issue mentioned by (believe it or not) part Pequot's John Kenneth Galbreth (the noted economist) and Charles F. Prather (son of another noted economist, Charles Lee Prather), concerning trying to force a bank settlement, and a way to give it treaty cover (make it an indian treaty but...well some things are still a mystery about this in re the Pequots). A lot went on between 1985 and 1988 to give the Pequots what they have today, and retroactive rights in the above.
Most studies omit the role of the JSDT, and jump from the AIM protests of the 70s, to the court's allowing the Lake Flambeau Chipewa to stay open.
Bottom line: any tribe that has a state compact has the same rights, except as negotiated back in those compacts, that an independant nation does. They might as well ask for your passport!
Does this mean that reservation rights are the same inherent to a soverign nation?
Would these include rights to process, access, arbitration with a body such a the united nations ect?
I allways thought that treaties pre 1896 enforced a more paternal role for the good ol USA (ie exercised control) over the governing body of the nation peoples.
The example I remmeber was when renegade indians commited crimes and retreated into the established nations, the USA reserved a paternal right to effectivly invade and remove the offender.
Once again this is not my area, so I must defer to your wisdom in these areas.
Do you remmeber when they declared a training exercize in 1968 as an invasion? Arizona I think.. I will look tommorow.
Chuck,
If this is a dream, keep dreaming. Most people want to get into a gaming business because they want to tell their friends they are in the casino business. It just like any other business, If you don't have the market or the business background, you can't make money.
The biggest huddle is opening a casino where you can get a license. If I could open a casino in down town Denver I'd make a fortune. The best bet (ha,ha) is to buy an existing license, and that's usally a 15 machine bar in Nevada or a small casino venture somewhere in the USA.
A casino purchase will require a lot of money for even a small joint. The usuall money that the bank will want to see you invest, in cash, is about 35-40% of the total price. And, one thing most people don't think about, a need (no a must) for persons with valid expertise in gaming operations. The two biggest reasons for failure, poor capitalsation and poor management.
Still, the investment money is the big thing. Then the cost of attorney's, then the clean background so you can get licensed,etc.!!
Like a friend of mine said after he went thru the bar licensing process in Nevada, "I should have just bought a bookstore in Kalamzoo(sic) Michigan".
Again, my two cents.
Zman
then go'N get it.
Fan,
Several years ago I and my partners from the old Aladdin almost went in business with Carl Ichan. He wanted use to operate the AZ Charlies on Decatur Blvd. in LV. Great guy, but his attorneys were assholes. Never could cut a deal that was doable for both sides.
As for the Sands in AC, no thank you. It looks like a real ulcer factory for a GM position. The risk/reward doesn't indicate a positive situation.
Zman
... you will need to line-up organized crime partners with millions/billions of dirty money to launder - the dirty money is systmatically/secretly fed into the counting room and then laundered into casino profits reflected by value-increase in shares held by offshore corporate investors. (see Denton/Harris 'The Money and The Power' also see 'In Search of Kenny Uston' by Technocraft Productions). G
ZMan wrote:
Like a friend of mine said after he went thru the bar licensing process in Nevada, "I should have just bought a bookstore in Kalamzoo(sic) Michigan".
Have any you guys ever been to Kalamazoo, Michigan?
Seriously though, it is good to see back here on BJ21. Happy New Year
$12.50 doesn't sound like much for a "goldmine".
Incidentally, GSS has been offering these type of things for $99 and advertising on television for the past few weeks. I'll try and find their site. It's hilarious..(well, no, actually it's sad but..)
Actually the doctrine of dependant treaties began in 1821 with the expulsion of the Cherokees. But do a quick check on the case law regarding 18 USC 1152. After 1978 it was simply a matter of the 1978 JSDT site protical being noted as a "reservaton by treaty," where "treaty" is taken to mean international treaty. The JSDT, intended to uphold all treaties involving control over certain defense instalations, also meant that treaties unilaterally over-ridden by the United States Congress, were back in force and internationaly protected. Refusal to uphold these treaties is also a violation of the START I agreement and the 1986 Second phase Nuclear Arms treaty, which all included US commitment to uphold the JSDT, which was the only part of SALT II actually ratified also.
The cases involving spear-fishing in regard to the Chipewa also included these points in the various rulings. Fully in force to secure control --- one description of JSDT listed treaties--- has been held to even over-ride the entire dependant treaty over-ride powers of Congress, from the original form, in the 1821 Cherokee case, to the 1873 Indian provisions of posse comitatus, to the 1920 Indian Citizenship Act. The second Supreme Court review of Chipewa spear-fishing, from Wisconsin, not Minnesota, spelled this out in their denial of review.
My interest in this stems from trying to trace the gap I mentioned, in my post above, where all the books on the origins of Indian Gaming jump from the AIM protests to the 1982-85 reviews of the upper peninsula casinos. Only one article in the Saint Paul Pioneer Press Dispatch mentioned the role of the JSDT.
That 1968 invasion ---I believe you are refering to the California Cabizon's protest etc. But you will find even more interesting threads if you follow not the stories that pop-up about Danny Casolaro, INSLAW and all that, but the actions of his brother David, and the actions in San Fransisco of the Hastings School of Law. The founder, John Hastings, held the archives of the Spanish, that the Bear Flag revolt captured, for ransom for the law school's charter. It is also a historical fact that Hastings used to ask for bribes on whether land cases would be heard under US territorial, Spanish Land Grant, or the few laws passed by the Bear Flaggers as they held out, while the US Navy captured San Francisco and California, was ordered to give it back, was ordered to suppress and then fight the Bear Flaggers, and then ordered to re-conquer California. That charter both allowed Hastings to be a totally private college and STILL be part of the University of California system. Their research contracts were used by the Cabizon's to claim part of Hasting's private government powers where a private college has full powers of eminent domain.
I won't bore you with the hype and even more amazing facts about INSLAW, but the sharp negotiations of the Cabizon's, moving from their original bingo parlor to today, is the only other thread behind the rise of Indian tribal soveriegnity.
So Indian Gambling studies have a huge gap, from 1978-1985, that is in small part pre-INSLAW, INSLAW shenaningans, and where the rest is the 1978 Vienna site status protical of the Joint Space Defense Treaty.
except where the Pequots pushed further to have themselves included because of the bank issue. The case, US v. Buckley ,involved Charles Buckley working for the Riadies, as an employee of a West Texas gas firm, getting huge denomination federal reserve bearer bonds. Tried for forging them he plea bargained down to a settlement that he miss-handled return of miss-delivered GENUINE bonds. Yes the feds admitted the "Buckley Bonds," worth quadrillions, were somehow genuine! Buckley also was paid a high 8 figure settlement, one of the largest federal settlement payouts in US history, to keep quiet.
Those bonds were supposed to be delivered to the Pequots to re-certify transactions nulified in that banking case. The Pequots then followed the strategy used by the Cabazon's and obtained their Indonesian financing. Some of the Pequots themselves call this their Buckley bonds payout!
