I'm read about team play and that spoters makes signals to Big Players or Gorillas to enter when the shoe if good. What should be a good count to make the signal in the case of a spotter? and when he passes the count to the BG or Gorilla is it the runnig count or the True count?
I have played with the team Idea, but there are others on here who do it full time. I use bankroll and number of team players as a guide. If it's just my buddy and I working a small trip bankroll I would have him call me in at +2 ~ +3 true count (never running for me), that way it can drop a little and still be good for betting. At this time I have him go to flat betting so we don't look like we're betting the same. I don't smoke, so I like to sit next to a smoker. Then I keep waving the air like I'm not happy. That way I can leave if the count turns and look like it's the smoke making me leave.
Sometimes if the trip bank is high and there are 4 or more of us giving it a try, I'll only want to come in at a true count of +6 or higher. That way if it starts to drop there's a little more playing time before I have to leave. I'm still new to this, but had the money to give it a try. I don't get to use team play too many times, so some of the real pro's on here might give you and me better info.
Not sure what you read, but if your talking "Bringing down the house" your do not want to re-use those count words. A few of the dealers have read that book and even talked about it at the tables. Try new things like the number of words ("Hows this table?" "Bad, bad, bad!"= +3 or you sit down and hear "I hope my drink gets here soon" = +7 )
last question first. He needs the running count. It is possible to take the TC and convert it back, with some lost accuracy...
I've done some team play and we used +4. The thing is, the higher your "standard" the less the big player will be betting. If you have a big team with lots of counters, you can afford to wait for higher counts. If you just have a couple of counters, you have to think smaller...
You don't make any money when the big player is not betting.
When I used the running count, I thought the numbers for the count were too big to pass along. In a 6 deck shoe you could have numbers that range from +12 near the end to +30 or more near the start of a hot shoe. I would love to use the running count, but found the passing of info smoother with the true count. Any help on switching me to the running count? Around here we can only wong the 6 deck'ers.
For example in Bringing down the house when the spotters call the BP and pass the count was it the True Count or just the running count?
Did you read his book? The way they did it, and I don't have the book in front of me right now, was to signal the two digits separately. IE the left digit was indicated by position of hand on arm. While the book is not handy, I could guess that something like right hand on left wrist = 1x, on left forearm = 2x, left elbow = 3x, left bicep = 4x, left shoulder = 5x. As a computer person I would probably use the fingers of the right hand to indicate the X digit above. IE index extended, pinky extended, two middle fingers folded would be 1001 in binary, or 9. :)
I don't believe Uston used that last idea, but it would be a bit more cagey since your fingers would _never_ match the count so far as the pit crew could see..
Or you could use both hands, two 4-bit numbers. or just 5 fingers (including thumb) representing a 5 bit number 0-31 which will really cover most cases...
KISS applies of course, complexity is bad... The very few I have played "team" with were computer types and binary was easy for them to deal with, and it's natural for me since I work with computer internals all the time.
I like the binary idea alot. I think I can work with that, plus it throws off anybody trying to apply it to a reg number. Could be done with a mix of hands/chips and not even look out of place. Thanks!
Also I have not read "The Big Player" yet, but I think I might be able to pick it up this weekend at a book store I heard about. Right now I'm just working with info from "Bringing Down the House", "The Counter", and "BJA3" (also the search feature in Green Chip Pages). As started else where, I'm still new to the point where I'm working the bugs out of the system. Always happy to get help that gets me thinking in new directions.
There are 10 types of people. Those who understand binary and those who don't!
Not all your friends will be good counters, but they might be good at bull sh!tting. In the book the gorilla never counts, he just gets the signal on when to come in and when to leave. The rest of the time he can pull off a great act and never look at the other cards thus not looking at all like a counter.
As for the count, I had to go back and check in the book on this one. The way I read it (and I could easly be wrong) it's a cross between the two counts. I think Ben Mezrich might have just thrown some numbers out there. In the spots I checked, they always say "the count" never getting to what count. So lets look at the list of code words, starts at +3 and goes to +18. Hmmm, they say six deck and running count could soar way over +18 by the time the big player got to the table. That makes it look like the true count.
But then we look at the test they put Kevin through. He came in at a +13 and placed '5 betting units' in the circle (total of $25). If that was a true count of +13 I would have it all out there 8 units, 13 units, we're talking $5, I'd toss three greens and go for it. The next hand he up's it another $5 unit (so that wasn't his max bet out there). So now it looks like their using the running count.
I say skip trying to look at the book and follow gorilla player's post. Keep it simple and use the running count, less math that way.
I hope I didn't say bet on the running count. I use hi-lo and always do the TC conversion. Otherwise I'd probably go unbalanced, but the TC conversion doesn't seem to be a problem IMHO...
I up my bet at TC=+2 and go from there. IE at 2d, I try to do 2 units at +2, and beyond that, parlaying wins as the count rises to increase my bet.
Got that on a T-shirt our departmental ACM student chapter had made up. Gets lots of strange looks when I wear it. :)
I should clear up my post. He should be using the running count to pass on to the Bip Player and not the true count. But after passing that count the big player should change that to true count or use KO count.
OK, then we are on the same page. If you use the "gorilla player" concept (a "big player" that doesn't count) then obviously this is not needed. But general terminology has a BP counting, and using BS variation indices, just getting "wonged in" by a teammate so that he only plays on decent counts.
BTW my "handle" has nothing to do with that. A few months ago at the MGM grand in LV, I was playing and the pit was not very concerned with my bet spreading, they seemed to be preoccupied with some female player at another table. I made a fair amount of money playing there, and my wife came up and looked over my shoulder to watch. She is a good BS player, but does _not_ count, although she knows what I do. She had come to drag me away as the rest of our group wanted chow. After coloring up and out, as we walked away, she said something like "you were about as subtle as a gorilla back there, going from $10 to $100 on two consecutive hands..." It seemed to fit. :)
In real life, my wife/brother/son are the actual "gorilla players" that don't count, just pop in when I say pop in. :)
To a computer scientist, what do Halloween and Christmas have in common?
Answer:
Oct 31 == Dec 25
(octal 31 == Decimal 25)
:)
In any case, signalling schemes have to be (a) easy to remember; (b) not stand out (IE you can't look like the 3rd base coach for a pro baseball team); (c) error-free (does he have his hand closer to his elbow or the middle of his upper arm?).
Also don't forget that I believe Uston's group used an Ace side-count so you may well have two numbers to pass to the BP, not just one.
Best solution is to be young, get married, move out to the Nevada nuclear test range and have kids with 8 fingers. They will be set to pass on counts to their BP. :)
