I am just wondering... how often is it that a dealer knows how to count? If he does know how to count then it will be obvious to him that I am counting. Is it his duty to report me? Is he obligated to tell the pit boss? Last... Is there a way to tell which dealers can count and which cannot?
-jj
If U meet such a dealer in your BJ endeavors, switch tables.
I am just wondering... how often is it that a dealer knows how to count?
Unknown. It's kind of difficult to conduct a survey.
If he does know how to count then it will be obvious to him that I am counting.
Probably, but if you stay too long, somebody who counts will be called to the eye in the sky anyway. That's why you keep your sessions short.
Is it his duty to report me? Is he obligated to tell the pit boss?
Depends on whom you ask. If you ask his employer, the answer is yes. If you ask me, it's no.
Last... Is there a way to tell which dealers can count and which cannot?
Yes, if a person is a casino employee and learns to count, Idris, the Greek god of toolmaking punishes him or her with a giant zit on their left ear lobe.
I sat down a double deck game for a little low-profile game. I was betting two spots and put a dollar out in front of each. There were several other players at the table. We won the first bet, and lowered my bet a little. After the next round, I raised it a little. Abut half-way through the pack, the dealer looked at me and said �Do you want me to shuffle.� I thought it was a good idea at the time.
This continued for a couple packs. Sometimes we would shuffle, sometimes not. Finally, one of the civilians asked �Why are you letting him call the shuffle�. She told him �Because he counts�.
To answer your questions: very few dealers can count cards themselves. Few dealers even know BS.
However, lots of dealers (and floor people for hat matter) have some card sense. Some it is obvious that a lot of low cards have been played (and the count is a strong plus) and sometimes it is obvious that a lot of high cards have been played. Even a knowledgeable non-counter will realize that big bets should be made in the first case, and small bets in lower case.
So a dealer may notice this. It is harder to notice in a Shoe game. In a pitch game, some dealers will give you a (negative) preferential shuffle. That is, if you raise your bet in a plus count, they will shuffle up.
how often is it that a dealer knows how to count?
If you ask them, every other dealer knows how. The real answer is certainly less than one in five. And the number that can count and deal at the same time -- and actually go to the trouble -- is much less than that.
If he does know how to count then it will be obvious to him that I am counting.
Yes, of course. In fact, it's probably obvious to him even if he doesn't know how to count. (Hey, maybe you can convince them you're a BAD counter -- their favorite customer.)
Is it his duty to report me?
Yes, yes, a thousand times YES! (Sorry, Titaniumman, the dealer doesn't care what you think.) It's his duty to report you even if he doesn't know you're counting. It's his duty to know in most places, even if he doesn't. So a lot of times, dealers just act like they know just about everything.
Is he obligated to tell the pit boss?
Only if he wants to keep his job.
Last... Is there a way to tell which dealers can count and which cannot?
Yep, just ask 'em what the count is. Few can resist the urge to show off. Many will just make up an answer, but if you happen to KNOW ...
ETF
(Sorry, Titaniumman, the dealer doesn't care what you think.)
Yeah, I know, and worse, neither does the dealer's boss, dammit.
:-)
I tend to agree with what you have said, but I think it is overstated to some extent. (It may also depend on what venues you play in.)
It is usually the dealers responsibility� to report anything suspicious to the floor supervisor. Sometimes when a dealer goes on break, the floor will all him/her over and ask about things at the table (�Was that guy counting?�).
However, I don�t want to create the impression that dealers are primarily responsible for game protection. At most of the casinos where I have played, the dealers primary focus is dealing the cards and making the correct payoffs, etc. If they happen to notice anything, they are supposed to report it. But it isn�t their jobs to do so.
As in many jobs, a lot of people will just not bother to notice.
I think of new players orient their cover to the dealers. �I told the dealer I thought she was due to get a BJ, so I took insurance.�, etc. Cover/Act oriented toward to dealer is largely wasted.
......a few years ago at the Palace Station. I'm playing heads-up vs. a male dealer, 50-ish, and on the very first round, he dealt his pitch game (can't remember if it was SD or DD) down to within 5-10 cards. Damn! Too bad the count was minus I remember thinking.
A fews rounds later, the "Rule of 2" was used for a positive count.
So I leave the table, and coming in right behind me are a few locals sitting down. Watching, I see the same thing happening, but the locals don't notice. One negative round he had 3 cards left (LOL! and the count was still minus).
What % of dealers count? Probably a good portion of those that play for themselves outside their casino. Overall, I'd bet less than 10% actually do count and, I seriously doubt any dealers count down shoe games.
Also, I agree with whoever said ni this thread, that if you find a counting dealer - Leave the table! That's just flat-out great advice.
jj,
My experience has been that most of the dealers I've had are lucky to count their own hands correctly... some of the male dealers in particular, when they run out of fingers and toes, have to unzip to get to 21!
Heh heh heh... I couldn't resist. ;-)
Dog Hand
Take the most clueless casino you know -- the one where the pit literally thinks "nobody can count down a 6 deck shoe." Suppose a top professional counter plays for 36 hours straight and cleans 'em out for $30,000. Suppose the dealer, much of the time at that table, had been working in that joint for 10 years, and had a reputation for (stupidly) believing that counting actually works. He's got a dozen books on it, and practices in a casino in another town. The whole nine yards. Can you picture the folowing conversation taking place? I can:
Supervisor: "Why didn't you tell me Mr. XYZ was a counter???" Dealer: "Well, gosh, I didn't think anyone would believe me." Supervisor: "Fine, well, remember that raise you said you wanted at your last employee evaluation meeting? I didn't believe you really wanted it, so ... I lost the paperwork!"
Every "duty" of an employee isn't written down on paper. And the dealers who actually root for a counter to win, don't last more than a few months, in my experience. WE may not think it's a dealers duty. Many DEALERS may not think it's their duty. None of that matters.
ETF
I wouldn't worry about counting dealers, most of the floor I have worked with couldn't pick out a counter if they watched them for a few hours. ;/ Haven't meet anyone in the pit or on the tables who could even play BS correctly.
