What does it mean to have a pit boss deal out the cards on your table? (nt)
Was the Pit Boss dealing cards to you just like a regular dealer, or was he backtracking them out on the table?? Sometimes Pit Bosses actually deal cards, such as at the Rio when dealers are short handed I see Pit Bosses (or floorpeople) actually dealing regular games like Pai Gow and Baccarat. They will backtrack cards on the table if a customer has a dispute about the previous hand.
Shotkaller
...is that the pit boss goes through the discards one at a time to determine the count to verify any suspicions he may have about a player.
I played alone at a Korean casino, the ptiboss, a former dealer, proposed to deal one last shoe for me, before my departure with $60k win. She asked me to play bigger. She dealt with casino president watching until the last hand, I bet $1,100 seven hands with one doubled down, she showed a 7. She pulled 777. I think now she maybe demonstrate what she might have done to me...?
The Boss is dealing BJ because the whole table is winning heavily.
have been trying ot cheat you guys or see if you were all counters or something
The table was dumping ..dealer coudn't make a hand.
A funny situation where the dealer was obviously getting upset because she was busting and showing her emotions. I got a kick out of reminding her that it wasn't her money so "Chill out lady."
Miss lady pitboss steps up right in the middle of the shoe with no smile and starting dealing at an unbelievable rate.
Definitly the fastest gun in the west.
Dealers work for tokes. A dealer will not get in trouble in all but seediest of places for busting too much. Therefore a dealer will probably be not terribly upset that she is busting. There are hundreds of other factors that you could have no idea about. Maybe the dealers dog just died that morning and now she's thinking about it and needs a moment to herself. She could have whispered to a pit boss that she needed to use the restroom and the pit boss stepped in to deal for her. Of course they're going to deal fast, they are either trying to set a (bad) example, or they're just compensating for nerves. Why on earth would a pit boss step in to check if players are counting, when he could just call surveillance or stand back from the table and watch? Why would we come in to cheat? A pit boss dealing is going to draw much more scrutiny than your average dealer.
I'm not sure what you're getting at.. but the FACT is ,this did happen exactly the way I posted. It was quite obvious the dealer was upset when she was busting consistently and losing, even an idiot could see this. I dont buy the "Dead dog or I have a headache".
Dealers come in all shapes and sizes and I do believe(or know) the pit boss was desperately trying to win the money back...but not by cheating. A very low act by the pit.
I see no where in my previous post that was implying the pit was cheating.
Mott
I've had this happen to me several times when in the islands. Specifically in Aruba and St. Marteen. Pit bosses step in frequently for various reasons. BUT it never seemed to happen because a dealer is losing. Why would a pit boss dealing change that? He or she is pulling the cards from the same shoe. I never get the impression in these places that the upstairs crew (eye in sky) are plentiful, and I don't think it would be that unusual for a pit person to start looking through the discard tray to give it a quick count if, he or she suspected something. When staying in the islands, (which I do very often) you stay in a hotel for say 10 days the relationship with the pits becomes good fast. There is no 24 hour casino. They open and close a certain time and mostly operate with one crew. So in the afternoon there is one or two tables going in entire casino. At night more, but always with same crew. So you develop closness real fast. I have conversations with boses all the time. Trust me nothing like the states. The sofistication is not there. Completly different then the states in the places I mention above. I have NEVER had a pit boss step in and deal to me in AC and I go 2 to 3 times a week. What I worry about most. Mott eluded to sleezy places. And he is right. But my biggest fear in sleezy places (especially in places where they refuse to keep cards up when dealer is not playing with anyone) is that they stock the decks before they open with multiple small cards and dealers don't break. It has never happened to me, but I have had counters tell me they counted 17 fours in a 4 deck game. Time to run for cover.
I have wondered about that myself when watching CSM games in certain
casinos, specifically on Indian reservations. Why wouldn't they be
tempted to insert excess small cards, or remove tens and aces from the pack in the CSM? What agency is available to stop them? None that I know of.
AB
casino personnel have any intelligence at all. At Turning Stone the pitbosses used to scream at the dealers on their breaks if the table was dumping. "You get right back out there and get all our money back," they would scream at the dealers. A female pit boss used to put salt in her hair to jinx the players and the shift manager, yes the shift manager, would throw pennies under the tables to jinx the players. This shift manager would also walk up behind a dealer at a dumping table and whisper to the dealer, "Now this shuffle strip three times instead of two," then walk away believing this change in shuffle procedure would cause the players to lose. They also would keep certain "assasin" dealers available who they believed to be hot and switch them in on tables that were dumping. Don't put it past a pit boss to try anything.
And lastly, the head honcho at Caesars, AC, who while in Vegas would run around looking for hot craps players to bet on. Needless to say he lost enough to lose his license in AC partly because of this, partly because of associations. And this was the absolute top guy in the casino.
....would stop them. In the very off chance that 5 like cards (in a 4 deck shoe) of the same suit came up, someone would immediately notice. These things spread fast. Most states are still very hesistant about indian gaming, especially California. adding .125% to their table games bottom line isn't worth the fatal blow it could inflict on them.
It would be almost impossible to detect the REMOVAL of several tens and aces by playing at a CSM. One would have to take out all the cards and count each one. No non-Indian agency exists that can do that.
AB
I am not convinced that they are shorting high cards however I got many more high count hands than I should have gotten. Every shoe I got at every table skyrocketed. Comps were coming out the Ying Yang as a small team of counters were all busy with high counts. The scary part is that they (the pit) didn't seem to care, compared to Vegas they were a little apathetic.
I am not convinced that the cards were being shorted however, they play a 6 deck shoe and the dealers would notice this when putting these cards into play if anything was wrong. There are few CSM's that I seen on reservations but I believe that these would be easier to cheat with. But who needs to cheat with a CSM, it is already a cheating machine. CSM-cheating shuffling machine :)
It only takes one bad casino to ruin your whole year. If you are in an indian casino set yourself a loss limit it is the only way you will avoid total wipeout. You will lose very fast in high counts if the deck is shorted (relatively shorted) of small cards, not only will you be betting large at a negative expectation but you will be making plays (based on high cards in the remainder) to exacerbate that negative expectation.
I believe that I have never been cheated outside of Vegas :)
Cutter
you get unusual high counts in virtually every shoe, take a break and come back when they change over to new decks. If dealers are not scanning the cards face up dont play at the casino.
anything in the islands. When I wrote above I was referring to casino's outside the US. It never even occured to me that it might be being done in the states. I never felt I was geting a raw deal here at home. To many agencies keeping an eye on them. However, I must admit I have never played on an indian Res.
Stops nothing. You are drawing conclusions based on your experience, but in fact there are many locales where indian casinos operate as they chose. Public opinion carries NO WEIGHT and stops nothing in the indian casinos of my home state. Indian nations are independent soverign nations. Some indian nations have gaming compacts agreed upon with the state as to what games, rules, betting limits they will offer.
However there are also indian nations in the SAME state that have refused to enter into a compact, yet have operated for years. Most obvious example is slot machines/video poker. Absolutely illegal by state law. Yet indian casinos without state compacts have offered these in their casinos for years. They advertise slots openly on local TV stations. Nothing is done. Federal agencies have taken them to court but nothing changes. They thumb their noses at the state, the law, and "public opiion".
"A dealer will not get in trouble in all but seediest of places for
busting too much". Wrong. They have been fired for it. And I've talked to them personally. Also, in my state at the 2nd largest non indian casion (by revenue) it was common practice to switch out dealers in the middle of shoes if the bj table was dumping. Not a seedy casino, just stupid, superstitious management. They would also go to the extreme of closing the table, forcing players to move to another table or leave.
