what count do you wong in at? (nt)

If I sit at a 15 dollar, 8 deck game with 600 and wong in a plus 4, is that a good idea, or does the count need to be higher? Would I be better off sitting at a 25 dollar table and wonging in at a higher count? What's the risk between the two. Thanks. I mean, what would the count need to be on a 15 vs 25 dollar game in terms of having the same risk? Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

What If I just wong in at say, plus 4 TC on a 25 dollar game, and just flat bet 25 dollars, and get up when the count gets bad? Is the possible to win long term that way? Thanks.

You will definatley be playing a winning game in the long run but you will hardly ever play. 8 decks is very frustrating it's all I could find either. since you are not playing the minimun jump in at +2tc as thats when your advantage begins .5%. It goes up .5% each additional +1tc so bet your max bet at true 4 and up but enter at true 2 as thats when your the house and your not wasting $ on minimum play. Your max bet should be 1% on one hand or 1.5% on two hands of your total bankroll you could go as high as 2% if you wanna push it it's up to you. So if you have $10,000 you could jump in at true 2 and bet $25 then true 3 $50 true 4 $75 and true 5 $100. Hope this was helpful good luck.

I think you need to specify more information to cover other significant factors. What betting schedule would you use at the $15 game and the $25 game, or were you thinking you would flat bet $15 at the $15 game and $25 at the $25 game? Also, what risk of ruin are you willing to tolerate with your $600 bank?

I realize that I have a really high RoR. Right now all i have is 600 to play with, and am looking to try and build from that. I thought that if i wong in at, say plus 4 and flat bet on a 15 dollar game, i might be able to build from there. I guess my question was, since i could only find 8 deck 15 dollar games, if it would be better to wong in at an even higher count on a 6 deck 25 dollar game (say plus 6?). I'll probably spend alot of time backcounting though. Hope that gives more clarification. Thanks.

Your best chance to build a big bankroll from $600

1. Save up money from your job
2. Wait for a big count and bet a third of your stack and continue to do that until you run your $600 stack into $3,000 then bet 1/6 of your stack until you run $3,000 into $5,000. Then you can afford to bet $40 units wonging shoes or take a trip to a good single deck game and spread $10 to $90 for few weekends and to Vegas and play the better locals double deck games spreading $10 to $90.
3. Walk up to a Roulette Wheel and spread six black chips on six different numbers and hope one of them hits and take your now barely useable $3,600 bankroll to a good blackjack game.
4. Don't waste your time wonging 8 deck shoes thinking you're ever gonna do anything other than go broke.
5. Find a game with a better edge or a casino giving unbelievable sign up offers to new members or an incredible promotion.

Or Bust out quickly so that you can move onto other things and not waste your time flat betting quarters on a junky 8 deck game with dreams of blackjack riches.

I am planning my first 3 Day trip to LV. I currently play approx. 500 hrs a yr. in the mid-west area. I have played alot of DD and 6 Deck Shoe games. I'm hoping that someone can give me a heads up on where to focus my play and save me some time from alot of scouting since I don't have much time in Vegas. Any information is greatly appreciated. Oh yes, I generally play $10 to $25 min. tables and adjust my spread moderately depending upon the enviroment.
Thanks again..

Your best bet for info is CBJN. It will help you target 6-10 places. You're going to find the best games for your betting level are off the strip. Go mid week and you'll stand a better chance at finding affordable games on the strip, bit definitely rent a car and concentrate off strip.

hard to find $10 except at few places but can find lots of $25. Palace station, Red Rock, Rampart, M, South Point (or whatever is called by M) all good and either $10 or 25 min. Not much downtown. I found $25 DD at Belagio on my last trip.

The RoR calculation expects you to make certain bets at certain counts every time regardless of whether or not you have made or lost money in the past.

For example say you started with 10,000 playing perfectly with a 5% risk of ruin on the 10,000. You go on a big losing streak and now have only 3,000 left but you do not change your bet spread, you still only have a 5% ROR on your original bankroll of 10,000.

If you were to adjust your bet size after every hand, say wonging in at TC +3. You could flat bet 5% of your available bankroll every hand. The chances of needing to lay down 20 bets within one hand are very low, I am sure there is a statistic out there but it is "low".

Now you continue to do this until you get to a point where the money starts to matter, you are going to experience extreme fluxuations, you run the risk of getting to a point where your BR is so small that betting 5% isn't even worth your time.

If you get to the point where it isn't worth your time you can either make the decision to top up to a point where its worthwhile, or quit.

If you get to a point where the money starts to matter, please start to play kelley, the less % of kelley you need to use the lower your fluxations will be.

With extreme self control you can get to a point where you want to be but play kelley as soon as you can.

I only suggest this because anything under 5,000 can be replenished relativly quickly and therefore should not be to hard on you if you need to top it up, don't quit your day job till you can afford to play at .5% ROR or less.

If you have $10,000 and a 5% risk, then lose $7,000 and have $3,000 left and don't change your betting ramp you don't still have a 5% risk of ruin...now it's more like 60% or 70% because you no longer have that original $10,000 bankroll. You now have a $3,000 bankroll.