What are side counts of Aces used for?

What are Ace side counts for?
I currently use hi-lo counting but i hear that some people use an
ace side count. How do you use the side count of ace and is it effective to have a side count of aces while using the hi-lo counting system? How would you change your bet size accordingly to this side count?

...but they are really only used when you are using an Ace neutral count. Hi-Lo already counts the Ace as -1, so the Ace is already taken into account when betting. For example, AOII is an Ace neutral count, you add +/-2 to the RUNNING count depending on how many aces are remaining compared to how many quarter decks have been played, for betting purposes. Also you can use it for playing adjustment by adding +/-1 to the running count for playing adjustments.

Shotkaller

... you are holding 10v10-A, 11v9-A, 10/10(A9)v4-6, etc. -or- for insurance calcs. G

From what I understand if you are using Hi-Lo and wish to integrate a side count of aces here's the idea. Use your Hi-lo true count for betting purposes. Then for your playing decision add one for every ace you see to the running count- so you are basically counting the ace as zero for playing purposes. You will need to use different index numbers because you are now using a different counting system (unbalanced). If you're going to do this in a casino it seems that it would be easier to count the ace as zero and make your play decision, then subtract one for each ace from the running count before determining your bet.

Here's a way to do a side count of aces without having an unbalanced system: For playing strategy, use the hi-opt I with 3,4,5,6 = +1 and 10s = -1. Keep a side count of 2 = +1 and ace = -1 and add that to the hi-opt count for betting strategy. This gives you the 97% betting correlation of hi-lo with the 61% playing efficiency of hi-opt, compared to the 51% PE of hi-lo.

Of course, this is a pain in the ass and only worthwhile, I think, in single deck...or possibly double deck...games. The effort is better spent in finding a game with a little better penetration, which will give you a better return with a simple system.

...IMHO. It is easier than keeping a main count and two side counts, then having to remember which counts to use in each situation. I believe that Zen, which I am currently learning to use, has a similar BE and PE to the count you describe above.

--Homer J.

Thanks Homie, I agree with you entirely. I no longer do the hi-opt, A-2 count described above...I've found something simpler and better. Actually, based on a bunch of simulations I've run, I use a simplified level two halves count: 2 and 7 = 1/2, 3,4,5,6 = =1, and tens and aces = -1. This is simple because the half points are always added, never subtracted, which is hard for my old brain. It gives a total advantage and ROR very similar to the full halves count, AND I don't do a side count anymore. Finally, the original hi-lo indices work perfectly with it.

is indeed a very good count. Double each tag value, use the indices for half-deck instead of 1-deck, and you have the Revere Point Count, (1,2,2,2,2,1,0,0,-2,-2) which despite its age is still excellent for today's games. And if you play single deck, count the Aces for adjusting your insurance index, and it will work as well as most of the more "modern" counts.

AB

Can you please explain how this is done? Could it be used with the Zen count as well?