Teams

It seems to be a hopeless question, but I'll try again. What is the best way to find a serious, talented, and reliable bj team if you don't have a large bankroll, but would like to use your counting skills to their fullest in team play? I know you need to network and everything. But as a bj player, especially one who doesn't live in Vegas, it seems quite difficult, if not impossible, to make good contacts that would create profitable opportunities such as team play. It seems the ideal way would be to train your own team from trustworthy people you know, a la Uston, but this is not feasible if you don't have sufficient interest. How do you make reliable contacts in the bj world, which can be such a lonely endeavor, especially when a primary goal of yours is to remain anonymous. Also, you have to be ultra cautious of mistakenly connecting w/ casino personnel. What to do?

Also, what is a standard division of profits, if you have an expert counter w/o a bankroll, who nonetheless is a huge asset to the team, allowing 'big players' to do their thing successfully. How does this typically work?

In casual conversation I have met about 5 people that count cards that I was already aquainted with. I had no clue these people counted cards but they did, or had an interest in it. If you know them and they have the interest and some skill that would be a starting point, more training would be needed of course to bring everyone to a similar level but it would be a start.

for your contact list to reach critical mass...but when it does you get to know (or get known) by most everyone in the blackjack underground.

Since you don't know anyone you will be unable to produce references that are useful...and without those no team in their right mind is going to hand an unknown 20K and say go out and play.

It is harder to estabish yourself now than previously. (especially if you don't live in a casino area). But within each casino area of the country there are small undergrounds. You need to start in your own area and then expand outward.

Regarding profits, most teams split 50-50 between investors and players with the players share split up partially on hours and partially on win contribution.

If there is a generality .. how is the players 50% share split/allocated as to hours/win contribution?

Thanks.

some teams simply combine the plus and minus results of their players and develop an hourly rate and pay everyone a flat rate per hour. Some will allocate 10-20% of the player share to create a bonus structure for winning players based on their contribution to the win for that period/bank. Other teams simply pay a flat rate per hour for all team members off the top of the players share and then distrubute the balance based on win contribution for that bank or alternately lifetime win contribution (meaning that players that lose 10K in the current bank must make it back in the future bank before recieving any pay.

There was a long thread late last year on BJMath.com including a pretty active discussion between DD' and Don Schlesinger debating the pros and cons (and fairness) of various team pay structures. I believe it was on the "Compu-Sim" page. I suggest you check it out.

I have a friend who is mathematically inclined, is intrigued w/ the idea of card counting, and willing to put in the work necessary to be an asset. He also has the resources to provide a reasonable b.r. We want to train more people, also.

Hypothetically, if it was only the two of us playing as a team, how should the profits be divided if he put in 35 grand, and I put in 15. Also, let's assume, I am the counter doing most of the work, and I signal to him in every situation how much to bet, and exactly how to play his hand based on basic strategy and the count. He is the big player, but does not need to actually count for himself or make betting decisions. Uston used this approach w/ some of his teams. How do we divide the profits in this situation?

From what you're writing here, you will both be putting in equal amounts of time (you spotting, him betting). He will put in the majority of the bankroll, though.

The teams I have been on have given 50% of the win to investors and 50% to players. Players got paid based on the time they put in; investors got paid based on percentage of initial bankroll they put in. If the bank has a net loss, investors take 100% of the cash hit, though; players are out their time (zero pay), but not any money.

So, you would each get 25% based on your time; he gets 35% based on his investment, and you get 15% from yours. The result would be a 60-40 split of any win, or a 70-30 split of any loss.

By the way, I would be cautious, as casinos have long ago caught on to this style of play (even when it's not being used -- one of my former teammates was backroomed after a casino thought he had been called in by another counter at the table).