Team Play

I want to organize a team. I'm the only player. I try to convince several investors, who are all my friends.

Here is the deal I prepare for them: If I lose, the investors share the loss; I have no pay. If I win, I take half of the winnings and the investors share the other half.

Each trip (3 days and 2 nights) is settled independently, i.e., loss is not carried. I promise to play 24 hours for them in the 3 days. Win or lose, I want the investors to pay for my hotel.

The rules for the game: 6D, H17, DOA, DAS, RSA, NS, 80% pen.

Is my offer near the norm? Any comments are welcome. Thanks.

24 hours seems like a short run. How about a goal of either doubling the bank (or halving the bank) and then settle up. A bad short term flux could destroy your venture capital pool.

I want to organize a team. I'm the only player. I try to convince several investors, who are all my friends.

Here is the deal I prepare for them: If I lose, the investors share the loss; I have no pay. If I win, I take half of the winnings and the investors share the other half.

Each trip (3 days and 2 nights) is settled independently, i.e., loss is not carried.

Consider the following scenario:

Trip 1: Win $200
Trip 2: Lose $190
Trip 3: Win $200
Trip 4: Lose $190
Trip 5: Win $200
Trip 6: Lose $190
Trip 7: Win $200
Trip 8: Lose $190
Trip 9: Win $200
Trip 10: Lose $190

Totals: Win $1000, Lose $950, Net: +$50.

Using your payout scheme, you win $500 and the investors lose $450.

Can I get in on this deal? :o)

Panama,

Could you help modify it? This is the first time I ever try this. You example is certainly designed against me. :-) Since I have advantage, I should win $200 more often than lose $190.

More details are available since you are interested: I plan to bet $25 to $300. I demand a minimum investment pool of $8,000 otherwise I won't even bother to start. I'm not an investor at the beginning but will invest my earnings.

So what is the industry norm? (A little explanation: I came up with this from what I read and heard. 50-50 for gains, all losses go to investors, each trip independent...)

Thanks for your input.

Norm is you split 50/50 after you double the bank. No splitting every trip. Expenses are losses, so you must double after paying expenses. Investors should agree on what is a covered expense.

Bern,

Thanks a lot.

So what's the opposite of double? Is it lose all or lose half?
I think we should also settle when the stop-loss points occurs.

You might read Blackjack Attack, which has a prototype for a team handbook, including pay schedules.

to forming teams than just the money. Who are you?? What count do you use? Play history? Your expected EV? Investors need to feel that they are investing, not throwing their money away. Can you control yourself? Your financial plan tell me right up front that you are a bad investment. You may be a great player, I am not knocking that, but I think you are a long way off becoming a BP for any investors. Would you go out and get a loan from a bank to bankroll yourself and pay it off if you tank out? If the answer is no, no investor would be interested.

Thank you very much for pointing out the questions.

In fact, I'm a good player. I can definitely control myself. My play history is good. These are not problems. I just want to know what kind of deal is fair to both the investors and the player. Panama said that the trip 50-50 was not fair to investors. I didn't mean to do that. Now I'm preparing a contract which indicates that I can get 50-50 only after the investment is doubled.

So briefly, could anyone show me an example which is fair to both sides? Thanks.

Lose these people as friends? It may very well happen if it does not go well for you. I know I would feel terrible if my friends or family invested in me and I lost it all. Just something to think about, best of luck with it! Hopefully you can double their money and all is well.

and favors the player far to heavily over the investors. A 50-50 split between player and investor is fine long term. But it cannot be done for short term settlements such as a few days of play. For short term arrangements it would not be unusual for the investor to get 80% or more, and even then he will probably come out on the short end over the long term.

The way our team has always worked, and the only fair way I believe to have an equitable distribution between players and investors, is to never have real final settle ups unless the deal is being terminated for good. You have a first period and then settle up. After the second period you combine the results of the two periods and see what each should be due based on the cumulative results, and then see how much each has already been compensated. You then distribute the gain accordingly. After three periods you do the same. Players are required to keep a certain portion of earnings in escrow to pay back overpayments that result from losses incurred after settle ups.

MathProf came up with a chart that based distribution on the fraction of N0 that has been played that distributes the gains based on a 50% to each long term expectation. This, of course, requires the investors to get almost all of the gains over short periods. For example, if settle up was every couple of days a player would come out great if he got 10%. The player would probably be taking well over 50% of the long term gains. Not having to make up past losses is what throws almost all arrangements into a can't win situation for investors.

I would also add that having non-bj people as investors is a very bad idea. The only people who should invest in bj are people who understand the nature of a card counter's edge and are aware of the normal volatility. Most people have no idea that a part time player having a net loss over a two year period is not unusual at all.

Sounds like a great deal for you, but they will most likely end up with the short end of the stick, especially if you take a loss the first time around. You need a tremendous amount of bets to be sure the profits you take are indeed profits. When we played as a team, even with 20 players a shift, 2 shifts a day, 6 days a week, it took 3 weeks to disperse profits. You're just one person. I also play alone now and I don't even think about whether I've made a profit until the end of the year!

Just don't want you to piss off your friends on a bad bet!

Take care!