Here is a link i found that doesnt make any sense to me.
http://www.casinocitytimes.com/article.cfm?ContentAndContributorID=6169
Can the author explain how you actually use this in practise.Has he used it in practise and is it worthwhile?
...to obtain a recording of a shuffle would generally break device laws. You can use this technique only to enhance your shuffle tracking skills, or against some shuffle where the use of a device is not prohibited, such as against a live-action online game.
Responding to your post about the nature of casino shuffles, you don't need to know the rest of the shuffle procedure to use this method. You memorize a slug of cards and when they reappear you should be able to reconize the start of the slug-it doesn't matter when they reappear-card sequencers have known this for decades. Perfect prediction of a number of cards is quite enough to get a fantastic edge.
On a very crude level you can use this method with your ears and eyes rather than a recording device. For example, the frequency of a riffle tells you something about its properties. Training with a wave form graphic helps with the heuristic involved here.
Basically this is a super advanced technique. First you must memorize the entire deck, acurately estimate a cut, now you have two packets memorized. Listen to the shuffle for anything that sounds "off" such as two cards sticking together and then put the deck back into one pack. Now you have a new deck memorized, do this for each shuffle in the procedure and you are set.
I don't even know if this is possible with a high speed camera (for cut estimates) a microphone right at the deck and a computer. I'd say it is more of a fantasy than anything else and definately not doable by a normal human.
Just say, "Boy, that is really great stuff!", pat him on the head, and move on.
If you had a dollar for every idea that John May had that actually works out of the 100,000 he comes up with -- You still wouldn't be able to buy a cup of coffee at Starbucks.
First you must memorize the entire deck, acurately estimate a cut, now you have two packets memorized.
As with sequencing no cut estimation is required and the entire deck does not need to be memorized. The location of a slug of tens & aces is all that is required to get the money.
I don't even know if this is possible with a high speed camera (for cut estimates) a microphone right at the deck and a computer. I'd say it is more of a fantasy than anything else and definately not doable by a normal human.
Not a fantasy if you are playing a live online game, as a microphone and computer can be used.
...for every time SOTSOG responded to the mention of my name you'd make Bill Gates look like a pauper. Look at the profile here and see just how many posts of mine SOTSOG has responded to, its truly sad and pathetic.
Mr. John May,
I must say that's a very interesting idea (if it's your own), tracking cards using sound during a riffle. But it's just an interesting idea. That's what it is, and you know it. I don't have to point out all the technical/legal/practical/theoretical obstacles you have to overcome before this idea can be "implemented", but suffice it to say that what you're proposing is almost comparable to predicting weather.
~Blackjack in the Box.
PS: I don't know if even the simplest task, tracking cards through a single riffle, can be reliably implemented on computer. Suppose you have a completely sorted deck of cards and you break them into two, one with red cards and the other with black. Now you do the riffle and record the sound. From the sound, how accurately can you predict the order of the cards in the deck? Generally, (we've learned this over and over) this kind of problem (which can be roughly viewed as "pattern recognition") turns out to be much harder than it looks.
Any volunteers?
... to this friggin nonsense! Just let the great John May blather on and on.
Flapjack, if this had any practical validity whatsoever, there's no way in hell anyone would tell May about it. And if May were the serious professional gambler he claims to be, and if this were a legitimate original idea, he'd be out of his mind to publish it.
It's always the same story. Advantage play is EASY. No need to count. No need to estimate the cut. No need to to do anything at all except devour every word that flows from the vamp's pen. Then the money will just fall into your lap. Honest!
ETF
I don't have to point out all the technical/legal/practical/theoretical obstacles you have to overcome before this idea can be "implemented", but suffice it to say that what you're proposing is almost comparable to predicting weather.
You don't because I already did that in the article.
PS: I don't know if even the simplest task, tracking cards through a single riffle, can be reliably implemented on computer.
It can. There have been numerous computer-based coups in the past couple of years, many incorporating more complex technology than I am suggesting be used here. There were several teams who beat csm's at a variety of card games, using a minature camera to follow the cards through the shuffle process-sounds like fantasy but the stuff of several high-profile newspaper and magazine articles.
This is comparatively easy by comparison. Its not "easy" but its quite possible.
From the sound, how accurately can you predict the order of the cards in the deck? Generally, (we've learned this over and over) this kind of problem (which can be roughly viewed as "pattern recognition") turns out to be much harder than it looks.
I don't think so in the case of just a single riffle. You may want to try this out. You should have a sound device on your computer which can create a wave form graphic of a riffle and a recorder. Riffle a deck of cards and record the sound. Send the wave form graphic here or to me via e-mail, along with the pre-shuffle initial order.
Make sure there are't any unnatural pauses in the shuffle. In a real casino these might occur but I'd be able to factor them into the calcs or just wait for a less chaotic shuffle.
>> Riffle a deck of cards and record the sound. Send the wave form graphic here or to me via e-mail, along with the pre-shuffle initial order.
I'd like that. OK, here's what we will do. Let's elect a referee (any volunteers?). I'll send you a recorded wave file and you will take your time to analyze it. When you are done, you will send your post-shuffle deck order to the referee and I'll send mine. The referee will then post both results on this forum.
Do you have any other suggestions?
BTW, I'm not a very good shuffler, and to make this experiment a little bit easier, I would like to recruit a better shuffler if there is any volunteer. If not, I'll do it. But, my riffle is really terrible, and I *know* it cannot be "read". I think the riffle should be done by "professionals" like real casino dealers.
One more thing. Which do you think is easier to "read", brand-new deck or used deck? Again, it's your call.
Thanks,
~Black Jack in the Box.
This john May is one of the worlds most feared gamblers.But who is this John May? I recall a guy who wrote a BJ book advising people to split 5s and the like.Is this the same guy?
http://www.casinocitytimes.com/article.cfm?ContentAndContributorID=1129
This is strange he rates roulette as no 4 in the best advantage play oppurtunities in a casino.looking for "biased wheels" didnt this go out with the dodo?
http://www.casinocitytimes.com/article.cfm?ContentAndContributorID=6042
He also advises people to bet on the proof of intelligent E.T life at only 33-1!
Please tell me this guy is some sort of comedian/prankster type of the AP world.If not then can William hill offer odds on John May ever saying something intelligent?
Would have to be at least 1000000000000000000000000/1 :-)
Since May steals ideas at the same rate that he comes up with his own whacky pipe dreams, it would be hard to determine if it was an original John May or just something he stole.
He did write a huge computer program that did many laborious calculations to show that the odds of hitting a number in roulette is 38 to 1!
Recently May asked about Bill Benter on BJMath because he had never heard of this famous Hong Kong horse bettor (profiled in "Gambling Wizards", Wired magazine, etc.).
Later, he was posting on another board tossing phrases like "Benter-type transnational racing syndicates" around in a post. If he starts off with "non-linear" blah blah "heuristic" blah blah "european high stakes team" blah blah blah... it is noise, and should be ignored.
Anything involving Math is either wrong or stolen, sometimes both. Unless some one has found a place where the player can draw against the dealer's natural in Baccarat in hopes of getting a tie. I think John was looking in South America for such rules, don't know if he found them.
is just a sort of cyber nerd that plays a few online casinos,dreams up ridiculuos "techniques" while never actually going near a casino and tries to convince the world that he is one of the worlds most feared gamblers?
Jesus I have heard of Benter for a while now.Has he heard of Las Vegas?
> This john May is one of the worlds most feared gamblers.But who is this John May? I recall a guy who wrote a BJ book advising people to split 5s and the like.Is this the same guy?
...John Patrick. John May wrote Get the Edge in Blackjack and Baccarat for the Clueless. May has more than his share of critics, but I don't think any of them have yet accused him of giving incorrect basic strategy advice.
"How about the second coming (confirmed by the Vatican)? 1000-1."
That reminds me of a Red Skelton joke...
In the Vatican, a bishop walks into the Pope's room and tells him
"Father, I have good news and bad news".
Pope asks what the good news is.
"Jesus has returned, and he's on the phone right now!"
Pope says "Hallelujah! But what could be the bad news?"
"He's calling from Salt Lake City".
Thanks for wanting to test this out properly.
Can we discuss this via e-mail? Its difficult to get anything productive figured out with all the pointless flaming going on this thread. By all means post here afterwards if you want to say I'm full of shit, but lets keep it out of this forum for now.
And if May were the serious professional gambler he claims to be, and if this were a legitimate original idea, he'd be out of his mind to publish it.
I'm keeping this on an academic level, but your professional credentials weren't exactly impressive from what I remember you telling me.
No need to count. No need to estimate the cut
Since when were sequencing strategies dependent on either of these methods? You are disseminating information you know very well to be untrue, that is beneath you.
A challenge here: Epstein's Theory Of Gambling & Statistical logic refers to several shuffle experiments where a correlation was noted between riffle frequency obtained by recording and the effectiveness of interlacing. In black & white that is saying the shuffle signature can be clocked more effectively with reference to sound and/or riffle frequency data. Its extra information, that is always more valuable. It should be fairly obvious how to take advantage of that if one understands sequencing.
Disprove that lot or take your petty insults elsewhere.
