Six-deck games

Lawrence Revere's book does a hatchet job on the Hi-Opts. It is a half truth. What Revere shows is that his Plus-Minus Count has a higher betting correlation than either Hi-Opt. This is because the Hi-Opt systems do not count the ace in the main count, but his system does. The ace acts as a high card for betting.

What Revere does not show is that the Hi-Opt systems have higher playing efficiency and insurance correlation than his Plus-Minus Count. This is because (1) the ace acts as a low card for playing efficiency and (2) a ten count has the best insurance correlation, while either Hi-Opt resembles a ten count more than the Revere Plus-Minus Count does.

High-Low also counts aces in the main count. Betting correlation is relatively more important for multi-deck games than for single deck games. Almost all single-deck games are 6:5 garbage today. Therefore, a new counter should learn High-Low, rather than Hi-Opt I. Hi-Opt II is an extremely effective system.

The World's Greatest Blackjack Book has correct basic strategy and the Hi-Opt I, but not Hi-Opt II. It also has superstitious nonsence like advice not to play against tough-looking dealers who wear a lot of jewelty. It has a betting system that is part count-based and part progression-based, but I think Humble and Cooper present it as a cover for counting, rather than because they think a progression-based system is the best betting system. The book vastly overstates cheating by the casinos.

that I should stay away from six-deck games entirely based on what I had read there but it sounds like that may be tough to do. I had originally thought it would be best to learn the Hi-Opt I and then use the Current Blackjack News on here to find single and double deck games with decent rules.

I had a couple follow up questions:

1.) How different is the strategy index provided for Hi-Opt 1 from the Schlesinger index for Hi-Lo? If not much different, couldn't I use the Hi-Opt and that index for single and double deck games (and count Aces) and then use the Hi-Lo for six deck games?

2.) Will the Wong Hi-Lo system with Schlesinger indexes still be effective against a 6 deck game (75-80% penetration, ds, h17 or s17)?

Thanks again

I largely agree with your observations about the book by Humble and Cooper. In terms of the stuff about casino heat and choosing dealers, a lot of it is definitely anecdotal, which they presumably added to make it more interesting.

Also I recently read the part about the comparisons with Revere's system and everything that you recounted above.

I see what you're saying about the Hi-Lo versus Hi-Opt, but I was deterred from that route thinking that I should avoid six-deck games anyway. Can the hi-lo be used against six-deck games? If so, then I should definitely go with the hi-lo.

If not, then (as I had been thinking) I searched through the Current Blackjack News on here (the sample issue from last year) and thought my best bet would be to become proficient at Hi-Opt in addition to counting Aces, and then search for favorable single and double deck games.

When skimming the list and paying attention only to those either downtown LV or on the strip, obviously avoiding 6:5 games, and looking for low minimums, I came up with these casinos:

Circus Circus (DD)
El Cortez (SD 2:1)
California (DD)
Fitzgeralds (DD)
Four Queens (SD 2:1 & DD)
Main St. Station (DD)
Western (DD)

Any feedback on anything I've said or any of these casinos would be awesome. Thanks

"1.) How different is the strategy index provided for Hi-Opt 1 from the Schlesinger index for Hi-Lo? If not much different, couldn't I use the Hi-Opt and that index for single and double deck games (and count Aces) and then use the Hi-Lo for six deck games?"

You could do this. There are some counters that switch between hi-lo and hi-opt 1 for single/double or multi deck games. You could also develope with QFIT software a good set of indices that can be used as a blend for all games. But you have to have a good understanding of counting systems to do that.

It's really best to dig into the 3 books I mentioned to start understanding the details.

"2.) Will the Wong Hi-Lo system with Schlesinger indexes still be effective against a 6 deck game (75-80% penetration, ds, h17 or s17)?"

What you will learn from Schlesinger, Wong, and Snyder is that unless you have a very large bankroll or are playing an even game for comps, it is best to "Wong" if you're playing 6 deck shoes. More on that in all three books.

The reason I recommend those books is that from the many books out there, those three are a great blend of beginner to expert material.

I too started off with "world's greatest". I came across it at a flea market. lol I learned a lot from that book, basically laid the ground work for me to understand how card counting worked, as many source will do, BUT when I got to the part about effect of card removal or value of each card removed, it was obvious to me that the ace, being the most valuable card MUST be accounted for. Side counting works but seemed an unnecessarily step, at least initially, so I wanted to consider other sources. It was then that I found Wong's Professional BJ, and later Mr Schlesinger' Blackjack Attack 3. I have since read probably a hundred books and have more than 2 dozen in my library. (a small number compared to some I am sure)

Today, I still rate these 2 books at the top of my list that I like to recommend to new counters and player. However in this day and age of electronics, it isn't necessary to only rely on the old paper standards. A recent online book that I like alot and have now placed right up near the top of my list, if not at the top is 'Modern Blackjack' by Norm W. It is pretty comprehensive, covering almost everything that many books also cover, but is an easy read and the many cahrts make it very easy to understand. It is also free online. I am not here to promote this book, so I won't post the link, but you have the title so...lol.

One note. I have posted my personal list and recomendations before, probaly on the other site and always get a few players that jump on my for the omition of Arnold's materials and books. Seems he has a loyal following. lol I have nothing against Mr Snyder, nor his books. Particularly like Blackbelt in blackjack, His books cover much of the basics, like I said, that you can find at many different sources and unfortunately, by the time I came accross his material, I personally was already familiar with this material, so it presented nothing new. So nothing wrong with Arnold's Books. Good sources also, I am just presenting my personal list.

When I got to the part about sources in this electronic day and age, I meant to mention the value of a couple blackjack sites as well, but forgot. :-( This site and a couple other's are invaluable learning sources. Read through all the old threads and post, and you can learn everything you need right there. :-)

Other than E.C. the casino's you listed have mostly bad pen and/or rules. Casino's in the outskirts of town such as the "Station's" and others have better low limit DD. Unless you want to spend all day on buses, you will need a car to reach most of these places. El Cortez is the best Downtown but watch your spread and bet jumping. If you are young and look like a counter they will moniter your play closely.