Shuffling after every hand

Is black jack beatable if the casino shuffles after every hand?

Obviously, if the dealer is shuffling after every hand, you will not be able to raise your bet when the count goes positive.

This is essentially what is happening when you play at a table with a continuous shuffler machine.

If you were playing a full single deck table with good rules, and you were seated at third base, you might be able to eke out a minuscule advantage by using a powerful count and strategy variations. But it really would not be worth the effort.

A few techniques, such as hole card play, would still be viable (assuming the dealer was exposing his/her hole card).

So if my casino uses a continuous shuffler machine (as I just discovered it is called), then it is totally useless to learn both basic strategy and card counting and impossible to get an edge I guess?

...to learn correct BS which will reduce the housEdge to .005 or less. G

"So if my casino uses a continuous shuffler machine (as I just discovered it is called), then it is totally useless to learn both basic strategy and card counting and impossible to get an edge I guess?"

It is indeed impossible to get an edge by counting cards. However, as Grifter mentioned, correct basic strategy will minimize the house advantage. You will still lose money over the long run, but at least you will lose it at a slower rate.

Still, the best thing to do with CSM's is Just Say No. Don't play them, and let your pit critter (and anyone else who will listen) know that, as long as they use those infernal machines, you (and all your friends) will take your action elsewhere.

Hmmm...There is only one casino in my town, in fact it is the only one in the country. This takes away the fun, not being able to play in my town, not even in my country.

Question: How common are these machines internationally, in other words, how big percentage of the casinos are using them and are they becomming more common?

about 18 months ago and are now beginning, gradually, to fade away. I suspect that you will continue to see them at casinos that have no competition (cruise ships, regional casinos, etc) and replacing some low limit shoe games in larger casinos. Most of the "real" casinos that have tried them have since gotten rid of them since both dealers and players generally have not been very positive in their response to them.

bp

The csm is a threat to ANY player. The cards are not in
sight of the players. The players have no idea of
what kind of shuffle. The player has no way of knowing
if the cards in the shoe are proper. Sooner or later
some casino will get caught with missing aces and too
many fours, or some other impropiety. THEN ALL CASINOS
WILL BE SUSPECT! Show a little honor your games are
slanted enough-ALREADY.

They must be on vacation over the holiday, otherwise I'm sure we would have heard some sweet talking by now. Maybe they're out playing BJ, but I doubt it.

Although we are all counters here, Basic Strategy players do win now and then. I don't think, however, anyone has ever found a (proveable) method to beat the game on an ongoing basis without Counting - and the CSM's DO remove that advantage.

You're caught in a Catch 22. If you can't resist the temptation to play, though, at least use PERFECT Basic Strategy.

Good Fortune.

For once Frank and I are in total agreement.

Good post.

Hello Parker:

Don't worry, you're not alone, I'm standing beside you...What the hell is going on with Frank Stanton?...I didn't think he was allowed to post such brilliant messages.

What the hell is going on Stephen? You usually do a fine job of up-talking the csms and like to explain how wonderful and convenient they are for the casinos to have. I guess it's changing.

Hello Not Frank:

All human beings have areas of weakness as well as strength...Just because I believe [or know] that Frank Stanton has accepted false ideas about the game of blackjack in general, doesn't prevent me from agreeing with him when he states something with a great deal of value in it.

Here is Frank Stanton's pasted message.

The csm is a threat to ANY player. The cards are not in
sight of the players. The players have no idea of
what kind of shuffle. The player has no way of knowing
if the cards in the shoe are proper. Sooner or later
some casino will get caught with missing aces and too
many fours, or some other impropiety. THEN ALL CASINOS
WILL BE SUSPECT! Show a little honor your games are
slanted enough-ALREADY

*****************************

Myself

That submission contains excellent ideas...I think it would be entirely within reason if the Casino Licensing Commission held random checks while the game was in progress...At the end of a blackjack hand, a man or woman standing behind the players would announce that he or she was with the Licensing Commission...Show the appropriate authorization and spread the cards from the secretive CSM on the table to determine that their distribution is legal.

It would also be nice if the players could be shown that the secretive machines were not programmed to "hold" high cards out of play at various intervals.

Way to go Frank Stanton...I salute you.

Hello Anon#7

You guessed right, I have been playing occassionally at the local Casino's in my area...From what I understand, Pete is playing with himself.

Geez, you don't think he's going to take that the wrong way do you????

As Bogey might have said...This looks like the end of a beautiful friendship.