Questions about the AC 6 deck games...

Hi guys, I am kind of a newbie but have some experience playing hi lo and the illustrious 18 deviations and back counting the Atlantic City game in the past. I have question about the 6 deck game offered in AC. Pen is 4.5/6.0 S17,DAS no surrender game. No mid shoe entry so you can't back count.

I know this game isn't great but it is Atlantic City and it has become tough to back count the 8 deck games because they have really lowered the amount of tables on the floor. The floors are full of Spanish 21,Poker tables etc.,,,

So I ran some numbers with the BJRM software tool. Any count below minus 2 I would sit out or switch tables.

Here is what I came up with assuming 4 players total at the table. The tables are $25 min bet.

40k bankroll

unit size $25

count 0 to -2 bet $25
+1= $50
+2= $75
+3= $100
+4= $150
+5= $300

This gives me a ROR of 0.79%
win/100 $35.00
SD/100 $761
hands to double 57,000

I wanted to know what you more experienced guys think of this betting strategy with my bankroll and overall thoughts on this game?? Can I make money at this game? Obviously, I would like to be able to back count and have surrender but that isn't available and I live close to AC.

BeatDaHouse,

I ran a billion-hand sim in CVCX for a 6D S17 DAS game with 4 total players. With 4.5/6 pen, I find that your bet schedule will win $40.05 (+/- $0.25) per hour (or, rather, per 100 rounds seen) with an hourly Std. Dev. of $788.68, a RoR of 0.6% (for a $40K BR), and an N0 of 38,789.

However, your bet schedule is too conservative. If instead you bet $25 for -2<= TC <=0, $50 at +1, $125 at +2, $200 at +3, and $300 at +4 and above, you'll win $55.82 (+/- $0.36) per hour with a S.D. of $1044.16, a RoR of 1.7% (still quite low), and an N0 of 34,987.

Oh, with you wonging out at -2, you'll play 86.2% of the hands.

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

I'm currently playing around with the same betting structure, and one that's slightly different. Let's call the one you've listed as Strategy 1, and the following Strategy 2:
1 Unit = $25
Count -- Bet
-2 to 0 = 1 unit ($25)
+1 = 2 units ($50)
+2 = 3 units ($75)
+3 = 2x 3 units (6=$150)
+4 = 2x 4 Units (8=$200)
+5 = 2x 6 units (12=$300)

Overall, the SD should be lower. The amount bet for +3 and +4 is different by $50 (higher in Strat 2) for each hand. The +5 count is the same. What I've been noticing while playing with CVBJ is that I sometimes with both hands, and sometimes lose one, win one. Rarely do I lose both, but it does happen.

I don't know what software out there I can use to run the simulations on these two betting strategies to compare them. After reading BJA3 and Burning the Tables, both books talk about spreading to two hands. BJA3 talks about it as a way to reduce the SD. Burning the Tables mentions doing it as a way to get more chips on the table. This is still the typical 1-12 spread, but is supposed to avoid the suspicious mound of chips that draws a lot of unwanted attention.

MattB,

I ran two separate billion-hand sims in CVData to compare your bet schedule with that of BeatDaHouse.

BeatDaHouse's schedule wins $42.85/hr with an IBA of 0.914%, an hourly Std. Dev. of 33.57 $25 units, a SCORE of 26.07, and an N0 of 38,359.

Your schedule wins $34.58/hr with an IBA of 0.856%, an hourly Std. Dev. of 28.19 $25 units, a SCORE of 24.07, and an N0 of 41,552.

Thus, your schedule has a lower S.D., but also a lower win rate. As you can see, your schedule has a lower SCORE and higher N0.

The problem is that, when you finally get to your 12 unit total bet, you're spreading it over two hands and, thus, eating the high cards more quickly than BeatDaHouse does. The percentage of hands you play at +5 and up is 4.85%; for BDH, it's 3.11%. However, each of your hands has only 6 units, while BDH's has 12 units. The important factor is the product of the fraction and the bet. For you, that's 4.85%*6*$25 = 7.275; for BDH it's 3.11%*12*$25 = 9.33.

As you point out, though, many respected BJ authors do indeed recommend spreading to two hands at high counts. What you're forgetting, though, is that you need to bet more total money when you spread horizontally. According to our own Stanford Wong, when you spread to two hands, each hand's bet should be roughly 75% of your "one big bet", so in all you're betting 1.5 times as much.

I modified your bet schedule as follows for your two-hand bets: at +3, 2x4; at +4, 2x6; and at +5, 2x8. I then ran yet another billion-hand sim with this new schedule. This schedule wins $48.43/hr with an IBA of 1.052%, an hourly Std. Dev. of 35.82 $25 units, a SCORE of 29.25, and an N0 of 34,190.

Hope this helps! If you (or BeatDaHouse) would like more info, shoot me an email.

Dog Hand

when i started out i used an online trainer, it basically teaches you basic strategy and tells you if you are playing your hands correctly or not.
Here is the link if anyone is interested

Spreading to 2 hands at + counts is a dead giveaway to the Pit Crew and more so -- to surveillance.