Progression betting system is not any worse than

but were playing a break-even game. Those odds bets you made on the don't side pay true odds on each number. So, if a shooter 7's out and you have an odds bet on the 4, you get paid 1 chip for each 2 chips of odds you laid on the 4 (total of 3 chips back to you).

Now, if you could talk him into letting you have his original bet against the 4 ALONG WITH your odds bet, well then, that would be an advantage play at craps!

AB

sure, but you have to admit, in the real world, the normal patterns go something like L L W L W W W L L W L W L L W

in other words, losing streaks over 5 dont occur consistently....

sure, ive lost 7-8 in a row before, but that happens once in a blue moon....

maybe its just that i scout for 'choppy' tables....

you can all stick by your laws of probability and maths, but the fact is in the 'REAL WORLD' large losing and winning streaks dont happen enough to counter the money i make from a betting system in choppy play.... ( W L W L W W L L L W L W W etc)

fact is, if all comes to the very worst, i lose AU$1k (600 US)

most of the time however, i get my AU$2k target (1200 US)

just say i win 2/3 times (my win% is quite a bit higher)

the i win 4k but lose 1k....thats still 3k in 3 sessions...

that 4k took about 4-5 hours, losing that 1k might have taken 1/2 an hour...

total time is less than 6 hours, and 3k, again my win% is quite a bit higher, and lose about 1k for every 9 i win....

this is purely real world, and fairly consistent.....

generalisations (your statistics and theories etc) dont always apply in the real world, as is the case with my experience....

again this is only from my experience.....

but I do not believe that I can go out there and necessarily duplicate it if I tried your method.

so you are playing an even game,

however the fact that you are up on a number that is harder to make, via the math, than the number you need to win is indeed an edge over the house

I have successfully developed and played a progression betting system for a number of years in a variety of venues and under varying conditions and rules.

As a point of interest, I began my BJ career with skill and success as a counter but continuously challenged myself to develop improved playing strategies.

My progression tehcnique has proven to my satisfaction through empirical methods to be more rewarding than counting in the area of relaxation and enjoyment of the game. Moreover, in actual play over the past few years, the financial results of my progression betting compare very favorably to my counting results and have made it worthwhile to convert from a full-time counter to a full-time progression player.

we're too diff people, we might play diff ways etc...

more comes into than just a system, whether counting, BS (quitting while theyre ahead can make them money) or a counter...

discipline, playing smart, composed...these are just some of the attributes that you must have to survive no matter how you play....

my sessions are normally short, so my ROR is less than most peoples (it would be higher the longer or played, unless i used larger bankrolls)

Yo BJM

I use a progression, and have had success with it as well, it is 2,2,3,4, D'Alembert) Give us some rough details on yours if you would plese.
Thanks in advance
Respectfully,

The Dood

The Dood:

I have used 2-1-2-3-4-5-6---- with good success. Somehow dropping to the 1 even after a win keeps things conservative. You will note that one must win 3 consecutive hands before things start to build.

a question to the heretic progressionist:

are you winners??? winning???

My question is done with the intention of "freeze" some type of conclusions:
-In the end, we are talking about money �MONEY!!! Who don't think that is losing something.
After read almost all messages of the forum, i think that for too many
of you the money win with progression is almost dishonest(or bad winning). For my, it's just money, and a want a lot of it.

- The counters do a lot of justifications of their methods, in the teoretic world (but too few in the real world).

The world of the progresionist is the real world, and the only justifications is the empiric.

SO..

I propose to the progressionist tell us:
. How much money win and lose
. How much time at the tables
. Positive/negative
. Quit points Win/lose (if any)
. answer the question: You think that you can play with no limit in the time (every day of a year or some th like that..)
. if want to share, the progression. (less important in this post)

TNKS in advance

PD. Sorry my English, with my first win i buy an English course....

i can tell you right away that you need targets and quit points if you use progressions, otherwise you will lose all of your money VERY quickly...

most people will fail suing progressions...some )like me and the topic starter) have managed to succeed so far...

it is interesting that we both started as counters and have invloved progressions after awhile...

that said, i am not a FULL-time progressionist...

only at my home casino...

when at counting friendly casinos i will use both...

when you have an edge over the casino, you will make money over the long run if you use a progression...

theyre also good for cover....coming in at a positive count but using a progression (and ajust it for how high the count is), really is effective in combating the pit...

all i can say is, use whatever works for you....