Possible player advantage with just BS...

Ok, I play at an indian casino in Oklahoma. Right know, there is a 2 deck game being offered with the following rules:RSA, DAS, hit soft 17,surrender and split any to cards. They are also running a promo where they pay $50 for any 6,7,8 hand. Suit doesn't matter. you can still split 6's,7's, and 8's and as long as you come up with the 6,7,8=21, you win $50 dollars. $25 with the A/J of spades. The catch is, the indian casino charge a commission of .25/hand for every $25 bet. In other words, you bet $25 it cost .25 cents. you bet $30 it cost .50 cents. $60 cost .75 cents. Is there a posative EV flat betting and using BS? I figure it cost $15/hour for the .25 cent commissions assuming 60 hands an hour. I'm sure some math wiz can figure this out. Let me know what other info you need that I have left out.

I believe you said they hit a Soft 17 so you are playing at a disadvantage to begin with using Basic Strategy, Flat Betting.

Then you lose at least another 1% for the commission. I'm at the office, but it looks like the House Edge is fairly close to what you would have on a Pass Line bet at craps.

Dtm

Keep in mind that the commission costs a full 1% or more. If you only bet multiples of $25 it costs 1%, but if you bet under $25 or odd amounts such as $30 or $60 it costs more than 1%. A $5 bettor will be giving up a whopping 5%!

A southern CA casino once had a similar setup with $1 min! I would not have believed that people would be stupid enough to pay $.25 per hand when they were only betting $1 per hand if I had not seen it with my own eyes.

There is no way that the 6-7-8 bonus comes anywhere close to making up for this, You will get the A/J of spaces less than once every 300 hands, so the effect of that is negligible.

The house edge for 2D, H17, DOA, DAS, LS is .28% according to Wong's BJ Edge program. Add the 1% commission and you are looking at 1.28%.

This game cannot be beaten by counting and using any reasonable spread, let alone basic strategy/flat betting.

Player-banked blackjack is a loser - avoid it. They usually try to sweeten it with bonuses of some sort, but the bonuses never come close to making up for the commission.

where this casino is. (I'm in Dallas.) There is one like this in SE Texas. They have to eliminate that surcharge someday and it might be playable.

the penetration is exceptional and there is mid shoe entry, I'd consider backcounting it.

Dave

First, thanks for the thoughts. This particular casino is in Tulsa,Ok 81st and Riverside). The commission is likely to never go away. The class of gaming will not allow for regular bj. I know the commission is 1% at the top end of all commission increases ie...$25,$50,$75,etc... I don't know what the 678 bonus does to the EV but the bonus is given out a lot more then I expected. In four of my last five sessions(2-3hrs), I received a $50 bonus(twice one session). It didn't appear to be luck because the whole table is hitting them. Most people go outside of bs to attain these bonuses. (I did so on low counts/small bets). I believe this is a great casino for counting because all the money lost has to be given away in the form of bonuses and free tourney's. The casino only keeps the commission. Ploppies play horible bs and give away a lot of money. The casino tries to maximize number of hand from each shoe to increase their commision(profit). Due to this, the pen is great and heat is non-existant. Don't know much about back counting but I'm interested. Any suggeted books or web sites would be great. I've attempted to wong but it is hard because the place is small and always full. Sorry for writing a book but I'm trying to answer all questions.