popping my BJ cherry

first of all i hope griffin isn't lurking these forums.

the team was me and another guy.
we both used covers,
staggered entrances
slight accents
and always had some dumb chat with the pit boss, like "aww this game is so confusing what are you supposed to do with 12 vrs 4."

day 1 tragedy
using a 3000 combined bankroll and 1-12 bet spread.
we were calling the big player in at a TC of 3
first call in fucked us over.
big player had 60 bucks on the table
the spotter raised his bet from 5 to 20
(some one please comment on this) we had no idea how to decide if both of us should bet the proper spread or if only one should)
the big player had 19, spotter 20, and the dealer pulled a 20
we played it out till the shoe ended with a TC of 10
and somehow lost 200 bucks. FUCK YOU variance

day 2 recouping some loss
played at the same general place in the morning and went up 200
the personel didn't recognize us from the day before
i blame it on lack of intrest in their jobs or something
probably had 1 call in.
it was pretty ridiculous i stopped playing hands cause it was below one. but i sat at the table. i watched it skyrocket to TC 3 and placed a 20 dollar bet. got dealt 21. the guy next to me says "is this guy counting or something" everyone laughed it off. the big player had actually already cashed out and was about to head out but luckily caught the call in. came over bet 50 and got a pair of face cards. i moved my bet 50 as well and got 14 or something. dealer busted.
we decided to move to another casino
it was using an automatic shuffler
it seemed like the deck never got hot (is it becuase of the shuffler?) we played for about 2 hours and only had 1 call in. the dp was also shitty. only 66 percent. i really don't know why we stayed there.

day 3 catastrophy
new casino. by far the best one
three fairly open tables
good rules put us at -.53 percent
and with a DP of 85 percent or higher.
so how did we loose?
we had 4 call ins in less than 2 hours
the count got so high we ran out of code words and just straight out said the count in a sentence "you look like your 22 years old"
the TC was at 10
we both had 60 bucks out
everyone got dealt faces except the dealer who had an 8
we split, and got more faces we were already celebrating
he pulled a 7 then a 6. WTF
the next hand sucked too. dealer showed an Ace. we each took insurance and lost it. we got like an 18 and a 20 the dealer flips over a 9
in a total of 10 mins out of 16 hours of play we lost 700 bucks with the true count between 8-12
and unfourtunately these pit boss were so out of it they didn't even notice us placing big bets and loosing so we didn't even get any comps.

anyways i appreciate any helpful advice
the casino already tore me a new one so be nice

we didn't slpit that last hand at the end.
i got mixed up up with another hand we played
split vrs a 6 at TC>4
split vrs a 5 at TC>5

Have your spotter flat bet. you can't play your spotter and "big player" day after day in the same place. even the clueless pit will figure it out, although most places won't sweat a top bet of $60. get up and move when the count goes negative or go to the bathroom or whatever. don't just sit at the table and don't play (that has been a fatal flaw in my game, I am talking from vast experience). look at what other players say and do. don't over explain or talk about what you are doing. again, observe other players. as far as variance goes, you ain't seen nothing yet. BJ is a a real grind; it's not like the movie 21. as shuffle machine won't hurt you but a continuous shuffle machine (they put the cards back in the machine after every hand) should not be played. in order to be successful at BJ, you need to know basic strategy down cold, index variations, manage your money, betting ramps and emotions, and only play good games (decent penetration and rules). don't play at a table or pit for more than 45-60 minutes). even then, you only have a 1-2% advantage over hundreds of millions of hands. good luck.

Lawrence,

My understanding is akin to revereman's post in that only the big player big bets, while the spotter merely flat bets. However, I don't think the big player need bet according to a 1-12 bet spread based on the spotter's flat bet. I think increasing the big player's bets beyond this spread would generally increase profits, should the bankroll support it. Therein lies my question however, and I hope somebody can answer it for the both of us. What should the big player bet in relation to the spotter's flat bet? And does the big player bet according to a spread? Say he comes to the table at a true count of +4, it would then be wise to increase the bet further when the true count goes up to +5, yes?

And a question about cover. I am new to this as well as you, Lawrence. How does a two person team pull it off? Wouldn't the casino catch on when two players always end up at the same table, one betting big, the other betting small, and vice versa? It seems to me this would be impossible to do for long without getting noticed.

jcbsbrd

Your game plan is flawed on several different fronts, Lawrence.

First of all, as others have mentioned, a two player team using the big player approach isn't going to last long unless you are traveling all over the country, playing different games. If you are playing the same location over and over, it won't take long for them to spot it.

Secondly, The big player approach is designed to get really big money on the table. A spread that a single player could not possibly do on his own. A $5-$60 is not such a spread. $5-$60 is merely a 1-12 spread. You would be better off with each player spreading $5-$60 playing solo on seperate tables. The benefit of team play in this approach is that you get to the long run quicker and smooth out the ups and downs.

Thirdly, A $60 top wager with a $3000 BR is going to be fairly high RoR. Certainly much more risk than I would be willing to accept. If you are going to accept that kind of risk, you have to be prepared for the possibility of losing your entire BR and it doesn't sound like you are. I mean someone who thinks that losing $200 with a $60 max bet is horrible "F U variance", is in for a big shock, I am afraid to say.

I know you are using the big player strategy from the 21 money. However, they needed to do that because of the big bets they were making.

In your case, assuming you are playing on the strip and you are not being blatant, no-one is going to care about a $60 top bet. Therefore, you need not worry about cover. However, you do need to worry about maximizing your expected value while lowering your variance.

The book Blackjack Attack by Don Schlesinger talks about these issues. For example, you are better off simply playing separately.

Also, on greenchip there is a post in the archives about a two-player tag team strategy you might consider adopting.

panama rick you summed it up perfectly.
but i guess the practice was good for when i do have a large bankroll