New player near St. Louis

I'm just getting started in the BJ game. Have read several books, but have only gone in two casinos. I would appreciate any information about the games near St. Louis. Specifically, rules and minimum table limits for:

President Casino in St. Louis, MO
Ameristar Casino in St. Charles, MO
Harrah's St. Louis in Maryland Heights, MO
Casino Queen in East St. Louis, IL
Argosy's Alton Belle in Alton, IL
Casino Aztar in Caruthersville, MO
Harrah's in Metropolis, IL

For what it's worth,

I went into the President casino in St. Louis, and payed $2 for the privilege of getting an ID card to look around. All games were 6-deck, H17, and noDAS. Most used the King CSM, but a couple of tables were dealer-shuffled. Most tables had a device built in to perform the peek for 21 without the dealer looking. I also noticed all the shoes had a small silver area at the mouth that almost looked like a worn-out spot on the surface. Is this some kind of monitoring device? I didn't play at this casino.

Next I went to Casino Queen on the Illinois side of the river. No ID required here. All games used shuffle machines with one shoe being shuffled while another shoe was in play. The rules here were 6-deck, S17, DA2, DAS. I didn't find out if resplitting was allowed. I played a couple hours at a $2 table (please don't laugh), and the penetration was 50% to 60%. The player's cuts had to be at least one deck from either end of a fresh shoe. The dealers and pit crew I observed seemed to be there for the job only and not due to any love, or knowledge, of the game. I was somewhat suprised at my overall comfort level at this casino. I had the feeling I could earn some $ there if I get my skills developed. Maybe wishful thinking.

I made two plays that caused some ire from others at the table. I split 10's against the dealer's 5. I know this is against BS but I drew and Ace and then an 8, and the dealer busted anyway. Later, I took a hit on my 12 against the dealer's 2. The same players complained. I told them that was the correct play, collected my chips, wished them good luck, and left.

One more issue that I would appreciate input on:
If I spend a lot of time in the casino at the $2-$5 tables due to my inexperience and cash-poor situation, do I run the risk of being recognized quicker if I ever do pose a 'threat' to the casino?

Thanks in advance,

WhiteChip CASINOS BE WARNED ! ! !

You've got to be kidding!

The TC for this play has got to be at least +5 or better and that is the count per deck (each remaining deck to be played has got to have at least 5 extra tens or aces) to justify a split of Tens. Obviously at TC=+5 you would have a MAX bet out or probably a better approach would be to have two hands of 6 or 8 units each. So, you see, that your average bet at TC=+5 is about 7 units per hand. I doubt that your TC was at that level and even if it was then you can expect some wild fluctuations in your bank with that type of betting/playing. If you split Tens while you have the MAX bet out you are looking to be identified as a card counter. Do a double down on A8 or A9 with max bets and you will be out the door in no time.

Big Slick

Thanks for the reply.

I'm aware that I made a boneheaded play, but I was playing $2 stakes and was really just trying to get a feel for the real casino experience. In hindsight, I'm not really sorry I did this (just this one time) because of how much I ruffled the feathers of the other two players at the table who did not hesitate to tell me that my play was bad for the TABLE, rather than just bad for me. I was really steamed later on, as I said in my first post, that they berated me later for hitting a hard 12 vs. the dealer's 2.

Wish I had thought of it at the time to ask them if their expertise could be better utilized at the $25 tables.

WhiteChip

If you did that play just one time for fun at the $2 table is fine. Now, if you hit 12 vs. 2, it will be correct if the TC was not above +3 assuming that you are using the Hi-Lo counting system. You are better off to eliminate the spliting of Ts and replace it with doubling on hard 8 vs. 5 and 6 on TC above +3

Matter of fact every time I play, at least some of the other players get aggravated and accuse me of changing the �cards flow� especially when I hit 12 vs. 2,3,4,5,6 and some other special circumstances plays based on the count. One of the best play that gets a lot of criticism from other players is 99 vs. ACE in high count. The correct play is to split the nines after the dealer has checked the hole card.

Big Slick

Don't worry about irritating other players. It comes with the territory, especially when you start making non-BS plays based on the count. That being said, it sometimes helps to point out when your plays help the table. People tend to only remember the plays that hurt them, so it is good to provide a reminder.

The other night, I split 9's against a dealer 6 up. The ploppy sitting next to me sort of grimaced. Dealer ends up busting, but would have made a 20 (and beat us both) if I had not split. I made sure to point this out. Normally I wouldn't have worried about pissing off the ploppy, but in this case he was a former NFL running back (or so he claimed and he had the right build) who was pretty drunk and very pissed off about losing, so I made an exception.

As for your other question, I would not worry about getting ID'd yet. Casino's tend to pay no attention to low rollers, for good reason. A lucky ploppy betting black can hurt them much more than the most skilled counter in the world who is using a $10 max bet.

WC - I played some months ago and did quite well at the 6D game. DAS was prevalent when I was there and cannot believe they would retire DAS on a shoe game. That sounds somewhat strange and urge you to validate that claim. I was there during a weekday and only four tables were open, two with King CSM and two hand shuffled. At the time, none of the tables toward the back and rear of the first floor had CMS's, BUT they were all closed and would not open one up. Was informed that the IL boats are more friendly.

I might be wrong about the rule of noDAS at President's Casino. I was just browsing around to get a feel for the casino. I do remember they had H17 and one other 'bad' rule. I purchased a copy of CBJN and this source shows fairly good rules, other than H17. Anyway, I'm glad you were able to come out of there on the plus side of the ledger.

Do you know what the silver spot is at the mouth of the King CSM shoe? As I said in my original post, it almost looks like a worn-out spot on the shoe surface. It is located about where the dealer's fingertip would apply the most pressure when drawing cards. Is it some type of data-collecting device?

I agree that the IL side of the river seemed friendlier. Maybe it was because of the $2 tables for this poor boy. CBJN shows a 0.34% house advantage for this place. All the other St. Louis area casinos are 0.56% to 0.65% house advantage.

Take all my opinions with a grain of salt, because almost all my knowledge has come in book form up to this point. Hope I can change that soon.

Thanks for the reply.

WhiteChip

WC - you wrote: Do you know what the silver spot is at the mouth of the King CSM shoe? As I said in my original post, it almost looks like a worn-out spot on the shoe surface. It is located about where the dealer's fingertip would apply the most pressure when drawing cards. Is it some type of data-collecting device?

I have not really studied the CSM closely since I pass it by. Not qualified to answer your question. If it is a data collecting device, it may be only for counting the number of cards dealt so they can estimate when to replace the cards or some other metrics. Does it look like it has any kind of sensor, like infrared or maybe a wheel (like a turnstile)? Curious. Look closely at the cards to see if you can spot any markings on the edges, like a bar code or something similar. May give you a clue. I would just ask the PC or dealer what it is. Act dumb and friendly. You may get your answer.

toddler