most obnoxious counter?

I had one that spilled coffee into the chip tray as he was being backed off.

I was sitting at the same table losing while that annoying loudmouth drunk starting betting crazy and getting blackjack or 20 every other hand. He was NOT a card counter and did not spill his coffee on purpose. It was just a clumsy accident.

Your pit isn't very intelligent for thinking anyone who bets crazy and wins is a professional card counter.
If I was your boss I would have sent you home instead of the drunk.

Too bad you didn't notice me,eh?

I don't care about card counters, removing you is just a job for me. I've got a hundred other more important jobs in the pit. When you act up though you just make me pissed off. So don't ask me for comps and then act surprised when I blow you off. Even if I know maybe I leave you there for another reason.

I did not use a players card and cant stand the food at your casino anyhow. I'm not even sure if this is the same casino, maybe just the same incident.

I'll give you a hint, I took a beating. Maybe the pit felt sorry for me, you think so?

If one *really* wanted "revenge," a sticky soft drink is a much better "spill" than coffee.

Takes a good 20 minutes of cleaning to get the "sticky" off the cheques.

New here but one of the first things I learned was no players card and if I am at a $50+ table and winning and keep getting buged to get one and all tha advanages I will just say no thanks and leave. I would prefure to have about a $1000 then a free $8.88 meal or $50 room and when I lose I don't feel like eating anyway.

I'm sure you've experienced polite counters and obnoxious, just as I've experienced the same in pit critters. It's a two way street.

There is no reason for some casinos to try to be so threatening, intimidating, and rough in barrings or back-offs when we are simply playing the casino's game by the casino's rules and have done nothing wrong. Sure the casino has the right to refuse to do business with us, and it can be good business at times to back us off, but there is no need to get ugly about it. A simple shuffle up or polite flat bet restriction is usually all it takes to make most of us move on with absolutely no hard feeling towards the casino. There's no reason to surround us with ex-middle linebackers and cause hard feelings.

I wish counters realized they are only hurting us all when they act obnoxiously during a polite back off as well. It only pisses off the casino personnel and makes them want later revenge, same as it makes us feel when we are treated poorly. IMHO, the player that gets obnoxious at a polite back-off lacks self-discipline and hurts his chances at future play in exchange for personal satisfaction, which is playing right into the casino's hands. I prefer taking the money and remaining low-key.

Of course if the casino wants to get ugly, then there is little to lose by making a scene as well. The casino is likely to take all measures against you that they can anyway if it escalates to that point. I'd try to make as much noise as possible around the ploppies to show that I've done nothing wrong except to make money while playing the casino's game by the casino's rules, and the casino is simply a sore loser. And I'd let all my buddies know of the place that needs a little extra payback when they are in town.

I'm no expert, but I have a problem understanding why the casino thinks its good business to put the heat on you guys. To me, you seem to be an elite group that just can't increase in number that much.

The vast majority of players have neither the smarts, time, money or, perhaps most importantly, the stones to make the commitment it takes to get an edge, and never will.

It seems to me a place like Foxwoods with such a huge take would only be wasting resources trying to hassle counters, but there must be a reason.

Please enlighten this humble observer....

Chummy

... It was me :) G.

the classic is to BARF all over the chips & that will get the table
TOO. If you'er gona do it, DO IT RIGHT.

eventually we would utterly destroy them. More and more counters would figure out that there is no heat...they would just camp out and form more and more teams and absolutely destroy the casino involved, or force them to deal 50% of 8 decks to everyone with crappy rules like in Atlantic City or Montreal.

It's not an either-or situation.

Why NOT take the free meal(s) and free room in ADDITION to the $1,000 you spoke of?

With the installation of face-recognition software to the "eye," anonymnity is, or soon will be, a thing of the past anyway.

Besides, by refusing comps (because it is so unusual these days), you are only calling additional attention to yourself.

Far better to behave, as much as possible, like a "normal" player.

You pit folks are going to have to protect your bottom line by being able to kissup to ploppies falsely identified too. FR software actually only has a 60-70% corelation to its matches etc. A false positive is NOT protection; it alienates many sources of profitable play. I don't know of ANY casino that has ANY formal "second chance" system.

The issue of player cards ignores one important thing: there is a suprisingly huge number of businesses that push cards on people and ignore the resentment. Cards can also be hacked or otherwise abused by ex-wive and the like. There are legitimate reasons why a customer who is profitable for a casino might want some space.

Your own casino I heard had about 5 cases where estranged once significant others have used casino slot cards to invade hotel rooms. The Reno Sands had a real doozy of a problem on this last April.

So there is a real marketing problem here that is not being addressed!

Hologram projections in jewelery and glasses are already here ala the fictional but well researched book Fequencies, by Joshua Ortega. All you need to do is note some recent ads in Britain from some sunglasses purveyors. I posted nearly two years ago on how defraction grating on a clear or semi-clear eye glass frame will shift the point focus tracking used by FR software, for a little lower tech countermeasure.

There are many successful casinos that are not sweat-pits and kind to action who have been in business since the beginning of time.
Assuming a friendly casino will go broke is nonsense. Most counters will go broke far before the casinos do. It is the inmature counters who kick,scream and shove while security is dragging them out the door that give us a bad name. I was at a table one time where the dealer was shuffling up on us and some counter wanna-be starting huffing and puffing so loudly they had to call in security and ask him to leave.

that with current 6 or 8 deck shoes and poor penetration, which is prevalent so many places, it seems that only the best of the best counters can profit. And as we know, in any discipline, the best of the best is always a small, finite number.

chummy

There are many pro individuals playing to banks well into 6 figures or more, and a few teams with members playing to a bank well into 7 figures. Although agreed it is a finite number, I wouldn't call it an "elite" group, and the number is growing. Many of these people have been consistantly taking 6 figures a year from the casinos for years even with current heat conditions. Imagine what would happen if the casinos turn us loose. Spreads widen, cover costs vanish, bankrolls grow rapidly, teams recruit & train more members, more individuals hear of the opportunity and learn counting. The casinos would be crushed in a relatively short time.

Just as in any business in life, if there is an extremely good opportunity, there will be many to jump on it. If a so-so opportunity is available, fewer people will go for it. The casino must offer just enough heat, poor pen, poor rules, etc. so that the opportunity is not good enough to encourage the masses to learn counting and quit their day jobs, but good enough conditions to attract the ploppies.

You have to look at the playing conditions that would exist if the environment was changed to no heat, and realize that it wouldn't remain the same. As examples, there have been several cases of casinos offering a too generous promotion. Counters would flock to the game & burn it out in a matter of hours. The promotion intended to last all day or maybe a few days would be canceled as the casino quickly sees it's losses on the promotion mount.